TK1571

As a Garrison XO I look over all our new approvals.  I get excited for every newly minted trooper.  I fully support allowing new members (and existing) options.  Why? Costuming and trooping are supposed to be fun and enjoyable...part of this enjoyment goes to comfort.  If we allow our members more options and open up the add ons for our members it adds to comfort and enjoyment for our people. Also cost plays a factor.  If you as a prospect have boots that can meet a standard level it will encourage that person. In the creation process.  Yes we have standards but we can open up more options and still field high quality members without without compromise.  If the issue is a Chelsea first order style boot, allow it as a level 1 option.  Allow different pants styles.  Let's grow the legion and detachment instead of disqualifying over such truly small differences.

I don't know if this matter either way, or not, but thought I'd chime in in case it helps.  Although I'm one of those folks that believes if it's seen on screen then it should be good in a CRL, I do completely understand about something like FO boots should only be for FO and not OT.
 
I did speak to David Crossman in 2017 or 2018, and at the time I was talking to him, via email, about the Solo Fleet Trooper (which at the time the concept was for them to be a female only group so I didn't really dig too much deeper after finding that out).  But, I can provide an email, if it matters, where he did tell me that in Solo, they did use some FO boots when they ran out of the others...
 
Per Mr. Crossman:  "As they [referring to the Fleet Trooper] are wearing breeches, we use[d] the taller officers style field boot with buckle at the top to fit it at the calf, and we would preferably use a boot with a heel rather than a wedge (the wedge soles are 1st order but they are in our tock so are used sometimes when we run out of boots.)"
 
Anyhow, that's why in Solo, and probably R1, we see some minor background folks with the F.O. boots.
 
At any rate, I love what you all are doing... consolidating yet keeping it simple.  Brilliant, and will pay off in the future for sure!

Correct. 
Much like how the recent Imperial Military Officer CRL included those items. 
Once both of the Non-Saga CRLs are live I imagine there wouldn’t be a need for either the Social or Science Officer CRLs as all the items and variations will be included here. 

I’m so torn with this, despite my last post. 
I agree that the intent of the costume is that the officers are wearing regular riding boots. In saying that though, it’s clear from the references that not all of them are. 
As a serving military member, I can say that sometimes we have options with footwear. There are the issued boots which all look the same, and we can also go out and buy boots that are actually comfortable to wear as long as they meet the safety guidelines and look similar. I don’t wear my issued boots and if someone were to look closely they would see that. 
What I’m saying is that in a real world situation it’s not uncommon to see some variation in footwear. 
In this case though it’s obviously a budget issue, stores availability, time restriction or something like that. I don’t think the average person was ever meant to notice, but we are hardly the average person here!
I think I’ve come around on the FO boots. But if they are to be included I vote that should only be permissible at the basic level, nothing higher. 
But that’s just my (amended) two cents. 

@charlyselo I admire you finding this.  I have looked at Lieutenant Punta for 5 years now and this is the first time I have ever noticed this about his boots.  

And you are right, we need to have clear guidelines for what we accept or not based on evidence found.  

We have two principles underway right now:

One is if we see it, it should be allowed.  That goes for the film and in other visual mediums like reference books and the like.

The other principle is "intent".  Meaning that this was a background character never meant to be wearing the what we would call a "hero" kit.  That is why his boots are reused First Order boots.  

Both of these principles have been applied across ALL detachments in a case by case basis.  It is why some things are not considered particularly with stromtroopers.  Their CRLs lean more to the idealized.

Then there are other CRLs that pick up every variation and nuance and make sure it is an option in the CRL.
 
This is something we need to consider because I DO believe in precedent with future CRLs.  It should not be our "whim", but a member should be able to look at something and with a reasonable degree of certainty know if it would be accepted or not.

You do make some valid points @kman. Initially I was of the mindset that if we see if onscreen then it’s ok, but thinking more on it I’m not sure I think that way now. 
You're absolutely right, we don’t allow gaffer tape or no stripes on TK buckets. We also don’t allow Tarkins with slippers even when we know that’s how he dressed at times. (Not knocking those who cosplay this for fun, I love it!)
There are always little inconsistencies throughout productions and these are mostly not meant to be seen. 
I feel that we shouldn’t include FO boots in this CRL. 

Thanks for the reminder, Jeff, I had forgotten the details about what was discussed last round, but now I remember that being the case.
 
FO boots certainly exist, so they could be *technically* be included, but the hybrid option, no, not so much.
 
It's a good reminder, however, about how CRLs work: We can't just grab screen shots and say "Ok, there it is, add it".  Someone has to actually submit a costume with that feature, and supply photos for the CRL, before anything like that can be included.
 
All that said, here's my thoughts on these boots:
 
There are multiple principles at play. There’s principle of “this is how we intend for this character to look”. Add to that the principle of consistency across the 501st. WE ARE NOT THE RPF. We do not have to replicate mistakes just because they were on screen. We don’t make our L3 Stormtroopers put white gaffers tape on their armor, and we don’t allow Mr NoStripes, despite him clearly being on screen. And we don’t allow Gunners to wear loafers instead of jack boots, despite the one quick pickup scene where they did.
 
THIS is the principle that has been followed in the past. What was intended for the character, and how did the costume designers want them to look? Adding to that, the Visual Guides have had many mistakes that have been shown over time. They’re not gospel. They’re handy *extra* evidence when needed, just like the action figures.
 
These characters are *intended* to wear standard OT style boots. Production realities and budgets meant they sort of grabbed what was available for a few background characters when supplies ran low. That doesn’t mean they were intended to wear FO boots.  et alone those weird hybrid things.
 
Option 2 is the principle of “no matter what, if we see it on screen, we allow it”.  That's a valid option, if not the choice *I* would make, but fine. We’d better push to start allowing Stormtroopers with no tube stripes, for one, because who cares about consistency if we can say technically it’s on screen? (or in a book?)
 
Now, all that said, these are not decisions that are locked in stone.  And if the situation changes, I expect us to update things to accommodate the change.  If we end up seeing 3 dozen officers in Andor, wearing these boots, that’s definitely on screen and intended, budget or not. And we adjust the CRL to allow it.  Once someone actually shows us a pair in hand that we can use for submission, that is.
 
Note that all of this is MY opinion, and where I would recommend we go with this.  If Robert agrees, that's a plus. LOL. This post is not intended to state the formal IOC command policy decision, and end all debate, should others feel strongly otherwise, but this IS the direction that I will be pushing for, as far as that goes.

Quick search at starwarsscreencaps when at work, I found this one during the battle of Scariff. Yes, it's not a very good reference, even not clear -at least for me- if it's a green or black uniform, but we can see the top stitching from FO boots.


 
I will try to find better references later this afternoon at home

Likely not.  While there are officers that do wear the helmet as the captain at the scarrif shield gate, I can’t remember any officer simply standing as a posted guard with arms crossed.  

Hello everyone. Over the weekend I found out that my GML cleared my newest costume. I still think it’s crazy this qualifies for several costumes. I am happy to be here and serve the Empire.
 

 
 
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Love it! When we discussed the Social Officer CRL, I suggested add it as a new version for the old Staff Officer CRL. I’m glad to see this is finnally happening

I would like to suggest the addition of First Order boots, with or without adjustment strap and zipper.




Of course I re-volunteer as model for straight pants/chelsea boots version. Also I can do the helmet + poncho and helmet + armor once I finished this last one.


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We are going to be reopening this CRL for additional updates.
 
It will receive the same treatment as Non Saga Imperial Officer (green).  Some of the features will be:
 
It will have straight pants and Chelsea boots as an option. It will allow face characters including those that do not have hats as long as a reference can be provided. It will be the only black uniform to have a trench coat and/or poncho. It will have a broader option of ranks available. The Navy Trooper Helmet will be an option with this uniform. The entire CRL will be renamed from Imperial Staff officer to Imperial Security Services (Non-Saga) as the production refers to these uniforms enlisted and officer as the security services.

if a member is able to do this uniform with the body armor from the Coronet Spaceport scene from Solo, that will be included as optional gear and another version.
 

All the text below is transcribed form the crl page, with all the proposed edits and changes being represented in red.
 
 
 
Hat
Fabric is a medium weight suiting material and color matching the tunic and trousers.
Gabardine Style is most accurate.
Base of the hat is conical.
Hat may be weathered to show wear/tearing and be muddy/dirty. If the hat is weathered, it should be done so moderately, to a level less than the trench coat.
 
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Front and rear "flaps" overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6 mm) high.
Front bill extends 3" down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
Imperial Code Disk positioned in the center of the front vertical "flap".
Code disk is painted Olive Drab to match the armor and belt.
Base of the hat's crown is 4" (101.6 mm) tall.
Code disk paint is "weathered".
Code disk does not have a notch.
 
 
 
Trenchcoat
Made of a medium-weight waterproof fabric that is olive-green with a matte finish.
Two flares at the breast overlap and close in the front.
The inner facing of the upper collar may be of darker fabric but is not required.
A seam runs down the arm on the outside, it begins at the intended wearer’s collar.
Cuffed sleeves with a single button towards the end of the cuff.
On the back the storm shield has a pinch pleat at the top center of the shoulders.
The coat ends mid-calf and is straight cut along the bottom edge.
The coat below the belt has a split seam in the back.
Two optional pocket flaps can appear at the intended wearer's hip.
The coat is worn belted, with the standard leather officer's belt.
Coat may alternatively be worn open with the standard leather officers belt worn atop an officers tunic and below the chest plate.
Coat may be weathered to show wear/tearing and be muddy/dirty, and not overdone or too subtle.
 
Collar may have a brown fur (or faux fur) collar lining.
 
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
The cuff "strap" ends in a chevron shape.
Sleeve cuff is 2 inches wide.
Pocket flaps have no visible stitching.
The left breast falls over right.
The collar around the neck is approximately 3.5 inches wide.
 
 
Jodhpur Trousers
Fabric is a medium weight suiting material in an Olive-Green color matching the hat and tunic.
Gabardine style weave is most accurate.
Flared riding breeches with flares to the hip/thigh area.
Pockets are acceptable.
Trousers may be weathered to a level less than the trench coat, and show muddiness/tearing. Should show a similar level of wear to the Tunic.
 
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
The flairs are semi-stiff.
 
 
 
Boots
Knee-high, black, riding style, lace-less, smooth non-textured, leather or leather-like material.
There are no buckles, snap tabs or decoration.
Boots have conservative heels.
A single stretch panel or zipper may be present, they are to be hidden on the inner part of the boot shaft.
The Stretch Panel or Zipper should not be visible from the front, back and outer side profiles. If a zipper is present, color the zipper black to help hide it and blend in with the coloration of the  boots.
The top of the boots may be flat or Spanish Style, but not Cowboy or Superhero (pointed at the front) style.
Boots are weathered muddy/dirty/dusty. 
 
 
Belt
The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material.
Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable.
There are no loops on the belt.
A single large snap or rivet is visible near the buckle.
The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer.
The buckle is constructed from a metal, or metal looking material.
The buckle size is rectangular and slightly larger than the belt.
Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center.
Buckle is painted Olive Drab to match the armor and hat code disk
Buckle paint is "weathered" 
 
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners.
The buckle is horizontally brushed metal.
The rivet is one inch away from the buckle.
Belt is made of leather.
Buckle has a slight horizontal curve.
 
 
 
Gloves
Black, wrist length simple gloves constructed of a non-textured leather or leather-like material.
 

 
Rank Bar
Rank consists of colored translucent plastic tiles mounted on a metal or metal looking bar and worn on the left side of the upper chest.
The rank bars may be weathered to a similar level as the chest plate, so as to look uniform.
 
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Lieutenant (2 red tiles followed by 1 blue).
Major (3 red tiles followed by 2 blue).
Captain ( 3 red tiles followed by 1 blue).
Rank consists of colored plastic push buttons mounted on a metal bar.
 
 

 
Chest Armor
All chest armor is olive colored and weathered with an indented area around the outer edge of the center flat section.
Buckles attached to the upper chest plate.
Collar extends upwards and tapers onto the chest plate.
Shoulder straps are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle.
The lower left side of the center flat panel is a recessed area angled inward from top to bottom with a raised rectangle greeblie and a recess horizontal elongated oval.
Left of the recessed area is a raised square that extends from the center to the curved side of the armor.
On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards.
Rank Bar is positioned just to the left of the center of the armor, where the intended area turns downward.
 
 
Code Cylinders
Worn clipped behind the left lapel of the Trench coat.
Silver Clip and Blue Top.
3 are present.
If Coat is worn open no code cylinders are required to be present.
 
 
Belt Box
Rogue one style elongated double drop box.
Box is painted the same Olive Drab as the chest armor and may be weathered.
If weathered, the drop box should show a similar level of wear to the chest plate and belt buckle.
 
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Long Drop Box is hinged.
 
 
 
Ammo Pouch
Yugoslavian m49-M56 style ammo pouch or replica. Made from leather or leather-like material.
Pouch is fitted with two straps.
Worn over the right shoulder with the pouch resting at belt height on the left side.
Pouch weathered or aged.
Oil pouch is present attached to the upper strap of the pouch.
 
 
Scarf
A dark olive drab/green military style scarf is worn around the neck.
Scarf wraps around the neck and is tucked into the Chest Armor
 
 
Optional Accessories
 
Items below are optional costume accessories. These items are not required for approval, but if present appear as described below. If adding in an accessory after initial approval, the item still needs to be submitted to local GML for approval before use.
 
Important Note: If Weathered, Both The Tunic And Trousers Should Show A Similar Level Of Wear As Far As Dirt/Wear/Tearing Is Considered.
 
IF TRENCH COAT IS WORN OPEN A TUNIC MUST BE PRESENT AS PART OF THE COSTUME.
 
 
 
Tunic
Fabric is a medium weight suiting material matching the Olive-green coloration of the hat and trousers.
Gabardine style weave is most accurate.
Tunic is double-breasted with a left over right closure on the tapered yoke.
Yoke comes up across the shoulder to the top shoulder seam.
Collar closes snugly and includes a modesty panel behind closure.
Collar edges are closed with two eye hooks.
There are code cylinder pockets on both outside panels of the jacket from about half way between the top and bottom on the arm hole.
Sleeves are long, and without decoration, cuffs or buttons.
One along the bottom and one along the back.
Tunic is constructed with no top-stitching (stitches visible on the exterior surface of fabric)
Hook and eye fasteners on the uniform should not be visible.                               
Tunic may be weathered to a level less than the trench coat, and show muddyness/tearing. If weathered, Tunic should show wear similar to the Trousers.

 
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
The standing collar has square corners and is between 1.25" (31.8 mm) to 2" tall.
There is a dart in the top center of the tunic, this dart is between 2 inches (50.8mm) to the top of the code cylinder pocket in length.
There is a seam running the entire circumference of the tunic, dividing it along a line hidden by the belt.
OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):
The back of the tunic has princess seams that run vertically and turn outward to intersect the arm-hole seam at the vertical center.
Tunic is secured on the right side by snaps or buttons.
There is no top-stitching visible anywhere.
A lining is sewn in.
 
 
 
Goggles
WW2 Russian Aviator/Tanker goggles, or replicas thereof
Have a metal frame and black rubber padding
Elastic strap with side greeblies which are painted grey
Are only worn on the hat and never worn over the eyes.
Strap is worn so that it is underneath the back "flap" of the hat and is centered with the front "flap".
 
 
SE-14R Light Repeating Blaster & Holster
Barrel detailing is evident with the cocking lever and slider in place.
The ejection port is also evident.
The scope mount looks similar to the magazine but smaller in size.
Holster must be black and of appropriate style for the weapon.
Holster has two belt loops, made of the same material as the holster.
Holster is worn on the right side.
The Holster is made of Leather or a Leather-like material.
The Holster may be weathered to a similar level as the trench coat and belt.
 
E-10 Blaster Rifle
Based on a real or replica Sterling sub-machine gun, scratch-built, cast, 3D print or a modified commercial toy Storm-trooper blaster.
Tactical flashlight (Surefire scout M300 or replica) mounted on the left side of the barrel.
Magazine is extended length. Magazine may be fitted with red lights which illuminate through the grill.
Power cylinder is larger with 2 outer cylinders and 2 smaller central cylinders.
The right hand side of the barrel features a rectangle box with two antennae. The top antenna is longer than the bottom. A rocker switch is present on top of the box. The box may be fitted with red lights which illuminate through the grill.
Scope rail is fitted on a rear block while the front of the rail is angled to join the top of the barrel.
Either one or two scope rings can be mounted on the scope rail.
The barrel features a folding fore-grip.
A folding stock is in place.
Webbing sling is attached with snap hook buckles.

after Kevair asked me about possibly updating the crl page with new additions as far as the mimban officer crl pages, ive done a polished first draft of my recommended changes, with several changes to make the wording as far as the costume requirements more clear and less copy and past from other costumes, All the changes or rewording that I did are highlighted in yellow. with additional photographs being used to present some additions that i made. In addition, I would reccomend some of my Photographs of my costume be used as examples of weathering, as i definitely went to he more extreme level of the spectrum as far as weathering is considered.
 
Firstly, the link to the document of the proposed changes. Mimban Officer Proposed Crl Changes
 
Secondly, My very weathered Officer
 
Thirdly, Reference photos,

 

 
 
 
 

Greetings IOC, 
 
  I thought I'd make a quick mention for those who might be interested.  
  I've been trying to get hold of a size medium olive officer hat from Anovos for some time.  I have a large that works, but it's a bit too big if I'm being very honest.  Having tried on a Garrison mate's medium, I found it snug but usable, so I've been trying to track one down for quite a few years, including placing another order when Anovos said they were "in stock".  You can imagine how that went... 
  Anyway, I recently was sent an email from a company called Denuo Novo that seems to be partnering with Neca through Rubies.  I suspect this is what Anovos became, though I don't know if the same people are involved.  The logo looks similar, the sizing charts and product descriptions are the same, so I'm assuming it's at least somewhat related.  
  They advertised ID hats, so I took a gamble and ordered a medium in olive grey.  It arrived today and thought I'd give my impressions in case anyone else is in the same boat I was. 
  Fabric appears to be very similar, possibly the same. The shade however, while appearing to be of the same "degree" of color, seems to be a couple shades darker than the original Anovos.  Under some lighting the difference appears negligible, but under others it seems quite noticeable.  The top of the hat has what feels like a layer of interfacing in it, which is absent on the Anovos. The brim is stiffer than the Anovos. The greeblie it comes with is of the type Krennic had on his hat, rather than the normal disk type.   The awful leather sweatband from the Anovos is gone and replaced with a thin, soft grosgrain sweatband. 
  Here's a few pictures to illustrate the color difference.  Anovos has the notched disk, Denuo Novo has the R1 style. Also worth noting is that the Anovos has been trooped in for a few years, and I may have dry-cleaned it back upon its arrival. I'm hoping a trip to the dry cleaners will bring the color of the new one close enough to the Anovos that it will be usable, otherwise I'm stuck with the impossible task of tracking down an old Anovos medium. 
  Hope this may have  been helpful to someone. 

Welcome back.

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Hello fellow Officers! I have been absent for some time between Covid and life, but I'm hoping to be on here more again in the near future. I am settled in to my new home and my son Jackson is now 2 months old and sleeping through the night. I'll have to make him a crew suit soon! I am on the facebook groups more often if anyone needs costume advice, just look for Benjamin Salisbury. Great t be back on the job again! Hope to see some of you in Anaheim next May! Long live the Empire!
 

Great give-away. Sure it will find a good home

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All,
Just going through the CRLs and I've noticed some discrepancies in the measurements for certain pieces. This is most notable on officer belt buckles, which call for height of 66.7mm and width of 104.5mm. The empirical measurements provided (which the majority of us likely go by) say 2 1/8" by 4 1/8" which is incorrect. 66.7mm is actually 2 5/8". 
Some CRLs have the correct 2 5/8" annotated, but I would just request that prior to CRLs being published, that we double check all measurements to ensure there's no discrepancies. This seems like an anal-retentive thing to bring up, but we might as well check to clear any confusion.
 
 

Guess I'm watching ROTJ again... here's all the comm pads I spotted using only the film.
 
Not the bridge crew, but still a comm dude.

 
Kinda hard to see.  My crappy eyes make out a red square that looks to be the mysterious "coin" slot badge, as well as a tiny bit of black in the middle that might be a slot or paint.
 
His brother sitting at the control desk has a better view


 
This guy has a red square that seems filled in, as well as the white boxes "above" it.  There's something white to the left ("up" relative to the picture) of it as well.  To the bottom of it I see another white blob (left in the picture) which based on it's location makes me think the color scheme is different than the JRS scheme picture.
 
 
Okay onto what I think counts as a bridge crew:


 
Again I see the white box, no slot.  There's something red to the side of it to me.
The olive-brown-gross color button on the bottom left is visible to me.  So I think this comm paint scheme matches the JRS one.
 
ROTJ TKs look weird...
Skip ahead through Jabbas whole ordeal, Emperor shows up.  Jerjerodd keeping his eyes forward behind Vader is actually kinda silly.
 
Next time we see them is when Han and Luke are trying to slip by in Tydirium.
 

 
This guy clearly has one, but I can't make out details.
 
Also, as an aside, I see several crew here with headsets.  Why aren't they allowed for ROTJ L2?
 
ANH and ROTJ bridge crew shall not wear headsets.  
Anyways, the next time we see a comm is on the ground.  Can't really make anything out again here, but still a neat little peak

 
This AT-ST driver gives a really good view:
 

 
Unfortunately the angle isn't good enough to see a notch or not.  He gets beat up and killed before we can see another clear shot. 
 
The last view in the trilogy we get is this one here, but still hard to make out colors or shapes

 
 
 
In conclusion, tough to say using only film refs.  If I had to go with my gut, I'd say geometry wise they're identical, but colors could be different between pads.  
 
Interestingly, the Battlefront 2 renders don't have the notch, but use the previous color scheme:
 

 
 

This thread will discuss changes to the Imperial Bridge Crew Comm Pad.  Changes were made based on evidence from the Jolly Rodger Squadron Detachment for the Original Trilogy TIE pilot.  These Comm pads have historically been identical for use with the Bridge Crew, TIE Pilots, Reserve Pilots and even Imperial Gunners.

This thread will be used for evidence for the change to be submitted with the text used for the CRL change for the two JRS costumes.  The membership will be able to view this as the justification before any changes are made.

I love my vacuformed compads!
 
It's always a balancing act between screen accuracy and having something look better than screen accurate... the on-screen ones never got the kind of close scrutiny that we get when we troop.  The crisp detail you can get from the resin compads can look awfully nice, for instance.
 
Still, I've mostly switched to vacuformed ones, for my own costumes, just because I'm an accuracy nut that way.

Interesting
 

The pictures in the comic books vary a little. ( e.g. she has different rank bars from time to time) 
 
But, yes, I have not seen anything e. g. with openings for code cylinders, nor could you determine the fabric exactly.
I'm not aware of the pattern for the tunic of the other officers. But Nyna - as they all have - has a very unique pattern (like several stripes 4 in the front, 4 in the back).
And the front part is slighly longer than the rest of the tunic. I don't think this is an option but the only way. (or is there a picture that shows differently and I was mistaken?)
 
Same thing with the boots. Yes, the ones we show with our CRL are no where to find in the comic books. I have all comic books as well. I only (when) see the boots with heels.
I am about to go through all books again. And I will try to find my references from back then. (Unfortunately I already lost data twice - 2 computers broke on me in the meantime  - I have to dig deep!)

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