PArmstr
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Posts posted by PArmstr
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16 hours ago, Hask said:
For me its Dark grey with a light grey center panel.
Here are screencaps of the Officer, the ISB Agent, and the Death Trooper on Tatooine. If I compare the color of the officer's boots to the clothing of the ISB Agent then the clothing looks black to me. The tunic of the officer is light to medium gray and the yoke of the ISB Agent is dark gray.
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I just turned on my XBoxOne and went into EA Battlefront 2 for a couple of minutes to form an opinion of the ISB agent because I specialize in researching the rebels of that game and not the imperial side. I checked the ISB agent out in the Tatooine sun too because you get the best color references there. I agree that her her suit is black with a dark gray front yoke/panel. I also agree that her pants are jodhpur trouserswith a very small flare.
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My favorite old school games are X-Wing and its counterpart TIE-Fighter as well as X-Wing Alliance. I did not like the X-Wing vs. TIE-Fighter game because there was no real story.
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12 hours ago, lantern2745 said:
I read somewhere recently that the Black flight suited Bridge Crew are officers of some sort, and that the Grey suits are enlisted.
Maybe that's how Glynn Dillon explained it? If I find the reference, I'll try to share it.
- Jeff
On page 123 of Rogue One: The Ultimate Visual Guide you can see that Ensign Yort Cavwol (top left corner), Lieutenant Danbit Brun (top right corner) and 2nd Lieutenant Frobb (above the MSE-6 Droid) all wear black flight suits. Crewman Todes Halvax (top center) wears a grey flight suit.
The text on page 122 states: "Similarly, service technicians are low down the imperial hierarchy and are routinely ignored by those in command. Grey-uniformed technicians deal with the most menial of duties, while those in black overalls are higher in station. Navy troopers, gunners and ground crew are military roles that may not see combat, but play a vital role in day-to-day operations. The Death Star project has great need of such personnel. The Service and Technical Sectors of the battle station's personnel number in the hundreds of thousands."
- jethroskull, lantern2745 and Gomcse
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Congratulations
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Well, here is what I found out about the EA Battlefront 2 Officer. He wears a helmet and armor on most maps. The exceptions are the Bespin and Death Star 2 map. The uniform is grey and it is unique. There are quite a few differences to the black Death Star Trooper and the olive Officer of EA battlefront 1. In EA BF1 the officers looked very similar to the ones in the OT. The only difference that I could see was that there is a seam going down the center of the back.
The officer in EA BF2 has no seam on the yoke under the collar. The collar overlaps instead of having a modesty panel. The rank looks like it could hold 3 blue and 3 red tiles but only has 2 of each which creates extra space. There are no code cylinders in the code cylinder pockets. There is a seam down the back. The sleaves seam to be split differently than on the OT tunics. One seam is on the back the way it was in the OT. The second seam is not under the sleave it looks more like it is toward the front. I think I saw something like that in Rogue One. The belt has three extra holes. The disk on the belt buckle and the hat are a little different than the OT but I am not sure if that was intentional or not. The Chicago screw on the belt looks like it has some extra lines on it. The jodhpurs and boots look similar to the ones the First Order uses. There is seam right under the right edge of the yoke that goes from the top of the shoulder all the way down but it disappears at the waist.
I did not post screencaps of the officer wearing the helmet and armor because there are already some on the second page of this thread. I have uploaded many detail screencaps of the officer on the second Death Star, Tatooine (Mos Eisley) and Bespin to my google drive. Here is the link.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dPUBCoD0Ug8muK-AnLbC_oxB2UERCeas
Edit: All the screencaps are from the original game. I do not have mods in any of my Xbox One games.
EA Battlefront 2 officer
EA Battlefront 1 Death Star Trooper
EA Battlefront 1 officer
EA Battlefront 2 officer details
Boots
Hat
Front of tunic and belt
Back of tunic
Jodphurs
Gloves
Blaster
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I think there are more differences than just the vertical seam on the back. Unfortunately, I am not an expert of the officer costume and still have to research and think a little bit on the matter. Here are some screencaps that I took from my Xbox one game. The screencaps are a little bit dark. I will try to get some in-game screencaps from the officer with armor and helmet on Tatooine or Yavin 4. Those should be lighter.
As far as I remember, the officer only does not wear the helmet and armor on the Death Star 2 map. I will check that as soon as I have some time to play the game again.
Front
Right side
Back
Leftside
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Congratulations, Mark.
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11 hours ago, Tonydragon said:
That's great work. So version 1 (ANH) wear holsters either side, version 2 (ESB) holster left side only.
Realistically is this something big enough to warrant changing the crl or would it be a level 3 pickup?
The INs in ANH wore a right-hand DH-17 holster on their right or left hip. If they wore it on the left side they had to cross-draw their blaster because the grip was in the forward position.
The INs in ESB wore an E-11 blaster with a left-hand holster on their right side. The grip is in the forward position. They must either cross-draw with their left hand or pull it out awkwardly with their right hand. You cannot see the direction of the blaster grip very good in the screencaps but it is clearly visible the first two reference photos of the IN ESB in the IN reference section.
I think the correct position of the holster should be a level 3 item for the CRL.
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This IN from ANH is wearing an empty holster on his left side. He is not the only one. The guards in the detention block also wear their holster on the left side. They are the exception to the rule. Most INs in ANH wore the holster for their DH-17 on the right side.
Holsters on the left side
Holsters on the right side
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There are some old threads from the IOC member Char Tozard, who modified the McCall's M4745 pattern to make his own officer uniform.
https://www.imperialofficer.com/forum/index.php?/topic/91-m4745-progress-report/
https://www.imperialofficer.com/forum/index.php?/topic/62-m4745-pattern-mod-code-pockets/
https://www.imperialofficer.com/forum/index.php?/topic/70-m4745-tunic-pattern-mods-complete/
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16 hours ago, Bracegirdle said:
Wow
Unfortunately that wasn’t seen on screen so not CRL applicable
Sent from my iPad using TapatalkThey were seen on the screen in ANH. You just have to watch the scene where Alderaan gets destroyed. I lightened up the last image. You can clearly see that they do not wear jackboots.
- bobafett4ever, xAlpha and Paggeldiwwer
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By the way, the shoes of the Solo guys look similar to the ones Galen Erso wears as an Imperial Science Officer. If they are indeed the same type of shoes, we will never know for sure, then they are ankle high boots. We will also never know if they are really Chelsea boots or not because we neither see enough detail in Rogue One nor in Solo.
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If this costume would be more complicated I would understand the reluctance to repeat mistakes from the past but it really does not make any sense here. We know all we need to know for at least the lower levels perhaps even level 3. We know that these guys wear a standard imperial tunic in black and olive green/feldgrau. We know how those tunics look like since ANH. It does not matter if there is a hidden seam under the belt or not. We know that they wear a standard imperial belt. It does not really matter if the strap has groves or not. It also does not matter if the belt buckle has a curve or if its disc has a notch detail or not. We know that they wear science officer style dress pants in the color of the tunic. We also know that they wear plain black dress shoes with no decorations or laces. It does not matter what brand or model they are. We do not need to know if the boots are ankle high or low dress shoes because the pants will cover the top of them anyway. It also does not matter if they are made of real leather or faux-leather but we know that they are not suede, they are too shiny for that. We know that one guy with a black uniform has a rank bar with six blue tiles and a code cylinder in each code cylinder pocket. We know that one guy with an olive green/ feldgrau uniform has a rank bar with six red tiles and one code cylinder in his left pocket and two in his right one. For the lower levels, it does not matter if the belts, code cylinders or tunics are the Rogue One or the OT version. The tiny not visible details do not really matter for the lower levels. We should not be this nitpicky, well at least not for the lower levels. It does not really matter if we only have enough references to create a CRL with level 1 or 2, not every CRL need to go up to level 3.
- Tutanchseth and Paggeldiwwer
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If you are going for version 3 of the ISB, then there are two Burda patterns that might work with some minor alterations. You would have to try to hide any additional darts or princess seams under the yoke.
Burda UK: Burda Long Wool Coat 12/2012 #104 Description as PDF-file
Burda Germany: Burda 7130 (version B and/or C)
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I think you can buy it on Amazon, EBay and Etsy.
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I do not think that the possibility of a few people being too lazy to look for riding boots should stop us from making the Service Dress Uniform CRL or to include this uniform in the already existing Staff Officer CRL or Line Officer CRL, depending on what we will do in the end. Why should we punish the people that would like to wear an officer, but cannot find riding boots or jackboots in their sizes because of a possibility? Nobody shoots their dog because there is a possibility that it will get cancer or rabies.
If I could wear riding boots I would. I wear jackboots that are 4 sizes too big for me with 4 pairs of insoles, 2 pairs of thick socks and an added piece of leather so that I can wear my bridge crew. I am pretty sure that other people also try to do everything they can to wear a costume that they like. Unfortunately, that is not always possible.
There are 2734 officers in the 501st Legion, but only 12 of them are Imperial Science Officers and that CRL has been up for a while. There are also only 137 Warrant Officers and 143 Imperial Security Bureau Officers. The majority of our officers wear uniforms with riding boots even though that there are CRLs without them available. Why should that suddenly change just because we add another option to our CRLs? I'm pretty sure that most people will continue to buy riding boots. They are just too iconic.
- Mitthrawnuruodo, Tutanchseth, f00f and 2 others
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31 minutes ago, charlyselo said:
Hi all! Yesterday I was watching the ANH bluray (first time for me) and I could notice something that doesn't exactly match with the research that you guys did on this thread. I didn't have a bluray player on mi PC, so I cludn't take good screencaps, but I toke some photos with my phone and they have enough quality to show my point.
I check this thread to see if some of you already discuss this photos, and I couldn't see anything. Sorry if its discussed already in another thread.
In an scene, thanks to the smoke we can see that the tunic closes left over right, not right over left.
In my opinion, this could mean two things. One is that tunic can be closed in both ways, as the NY police tunic that PArmstr posted here, and this guy from the pictures closed it from left to right, OR, the tunic is more close to this next toy:
Also, on a screencap posted early on this thread, I can see something similar to the toy:
What do you think?
That shot was mirrored. Every IN in the detention block had the blaster in his right hand. Sometimes it is a DH-17 and sometimes it is an E-11. If you look closely at the sequence it is always the same two guys getting shot. They probably mirrored that shot to create the illusion that there more INs as there actually were. If you look at the two first guys getting shot they are standing on the right side and the hallway is on their left. In the second the sequence the guy with the smoke in the tunic is standing on the left side and the hall is on the right side but now the IN has the blaster in his left hand instead of his right hand.
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2 minutes ago, Exaldear said:
Speaking of the shirt. Perhaps it should be added to all officer uniforms as we have confirmation that all officers were given one for the film. Just an idea.
I think that we should not add things that we cannot see on screen. Peter Crushing wore slippers in ANH in scenes where you could only see his upper body because his boots were to tight for his big feet. We know that but slippers are not an optional item in the CRL for Grand Moff Tarkin.
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Imperial Navy Helmet
For 501st approval:
- For more detailed images, see the Imperial Navy Helmet Detail page.
- 12" (304.8mm) diameter black plastic dome.
- Front and back covers with 1.5" (38.1mm) holes over-laid onto dome.
- Back "wing" extending about 4" (101.6mm) below the rim of the dome at the sides and about 7" (177.8mm) at the back, encompassing about half the circumference of the helmet.
- Ear blocks with a bend to match the flare of the "wing" over each ear at the front ends of the "wing" with geometric circle patterns in the top half and a spaced out area of "dimples" in the lower half.
For level two certification (if applicable):
- Helmet must very closely match the details seen on screen
For level three certification (if applicable):
- Must exactly match a specific helmet worn on-screen.
Tunic
For 501st approval:
- Fabric should be black or a very dark blue
- The tunic is double-breasted with a left over right closure on the tapered yoke.
- Yoke comes straight across from the collar center.
- The standing collar has square corners and should cover ½ to 2/3 of the neck. A modesty panel can be present.
- Sleeves are long, and without decoration, cuffs or buttons
- Tunic shall not have the standard code cylinder pockets.
- Darts and princess seams on the front are permitted for a better fit of the tunic
- A seam running the entire circumference of the tunic, dividing the top from the skirt is permitted
For level two certification (if applicable):
- There is a seam down the center of the yoke
- There is top stitching down the yoke about 50mm from the edge
- There is a slit on both side seams that goes up about 1/3 of the total length of the tunic
- Sleeves have two seams, one along the bottom and one along the back.
- The point of the yoke comes across and slightly up.
For level three certification (if applicable):
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The fabric should be wool. The fabric should look like the wool used in the original but can also be a wool/synthetic or synthetic fabric. A wool fabric with a twill or fishbone weave is not permitted. - There are princess seams on the back of the tunic
- There is a seam down the center of the back
- There shall be no seam running the entire circumference of the tunic
- There is topstitching on the top of the yoke running from the middle seam around the yoke down the hem. The topstitching is about 10mm from the edge.
- There is top stitching around the wrist area of the sleeve. The topstitching is about 10mm from the edge.
- There is top stitching around the bottom hem of the front and back of the tunic. The topstitching in about 10mm from the edge.
- There is top stitching around the edge of the collar. The topstitching is about 10mm from the edge
- There is lining inside the tunic
- Snaps or buttons are hidden behind a panel are used for closure
- There shall not be extra darts or princess seams on the front
Black Gauntlet Gloves
For 501st approval:
- Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, fitted gauntlet style.
For level two certification (if applicable):
- Gauntlets are made of leather.
For level three certification (if applicable):
- Gauntlets have a strap with a buckle around the wrist.
- Gauntlets have red lining
Belt
For 501st approval:
- The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material.
- Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable.
- There are no loops on the belt.
- A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) from the buckle. The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer.
- The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal or metal looking material.
- The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners.
- The buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center. Please refer to the Imperial Buckle reference page for information on accurate and inaccurate style buckles.
For level two certification (if applicable):
- The belt is made of leather.
For level three certification (if applicable):
- Snap is worn to the left of the wearer.
- Buckle has a slight horizontal
Trousers
For 501st approval:
- Trousers should be made of the same fabric as the tunic
- Trousers should have the same color as the tunic
- Pockets are acceptable, although not visible with the tunic on.
- Pants are neatly pressed with no center crease and are tucked into boots.
Boots
For 501st approval:
- Calf high black leather or leather-like material.
- Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments.
- Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot, with the buckle no wider than 1". This need not be functional.
- Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black.
- German "jack boot" style boots are most canon.
For level two certification (if applicable):
- Boots are made of leather.
For level three certification (if applicable):
- Original German jack boots (or ?Knobelbechers?) or an authentic replication thereof.
- Boots have the top adjustment strap.
Optional Accessories
Items below are optional costume accessories. These items are not required for approval, but if present appears as described below.
Belt Boxes
For 501st approval:
- Two vertical belt boxes, one on either side of the belt buckle
- Dimensions are approximately 2 1/2" (63.5 mm) by 3 1/2" (88.9 mm) by 1" (25.4 mm) thick.
For level two certification (if applicable):
- Belt boxes should include a lid on the back of the box.
- Project boxes are not allowed for level 2 and 3 clearance.
For level three certification (if applicable):
- Belt boxes are constructed of metal.
Imperial Hat, black
For 501st approval:
- The fabric is a medium weight suiting material matching the pants and tunic if applicable. Gabardine style weave is most accurate.
- The base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6 mm) tall.
- Front and rear "flaps" overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6 mm) high.
- Front bill extends 3" down, decorated with 5, 6 or 7 concentric stitches.
- Imperial Code Disk is positioned in the center of the front vertical flap.
For level two certification (if applicable):
- Code Disk has a notch detail on the outermost disk.
For level three certification (if applicable):
- Code disk exactly matches screen-used prop.
Holster
For 501st approval:
- Made of black leather or leather-like material.
For level two certification (if applicable):
- The holster should be made of leather
For level three certification (if applicable):
- DH-17 holster should be worn on the right side
- E-11 holster should be worn on the left side
DH-17 Blaster
For 501st approval:
- Scratch built high-end prop replica or a modified commercial toy Rebel Trooper blaster.
BlasTech E-11
For 501st approval:
- Scratch-built, high-end prop replica or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster.
This CRL is based on my research, the research of TK1066, Paggeldiwwer and many others.
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8 hours ago, kman said:
Wow, those collar hooks in that vintage fireman's tunic are awesome. I wish I could get some of those into my Staff Officer collar!
As to the CRL, is it truly necessary to require wool for Level 3? What about people with wool allergies? There are synthetics that give a good wool appearance... wouldn't those suffice? Just a thought, anyway.
It never crossed my mind that someone could be allergic to wool. No, it does not have to be wool. It can also be a synthetic or a wool/synthetic mixed fabric. It just has to look correct. It more about the type weave anyway. A wool fabric with a twill or fishbone weave would also be incorrect even though it would be wool. Unfortunately, I do not know the correct term for the type of weave used for the original NY Police tunic. I only know that when I go into my local fabric shop that I get the correct weave when I ask for a wool or a wool/synthetic mixed fabric.
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Thank you for going the extra length to confirm the information that I have collected with Mr Crossman. I hope that we will be able to update existing CRL and creating new ones that reflect what we have learned in the last couple of years.
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Thank you, for trying to confirm the information that I have collected with Mr Crossman. I guess this is as far as we will get.
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4 hours ago, BensID39999 said:
There is a lot of great information and debate going on here. Thank you folks, to everyone, for keeping it civil!
I think that with decent images available this could be a simple set of modifications to an existing CRL. The Science Officer was created generic for a reason, it is not a Galen Erso face character for a reason. We assumed it was a form of dress that others in the wide range of the Imperial Military would have. We keep the shirt, open it up to any single rank bar, and keep the hat off. Basically we should be able to modify the title to Service Dress, add a black (staff) version, and have a nice, compact CRL that could have a VERY positive impact for IOC Recruitment. I have come to the conclusion that this is by far the swiftest way to get this canon uniform approved.
Thank you for reminding us of the reasons why we have a generic Science Officer CRL instead of a Galen Erso Science Officer CRL. Even though I was part of that discussion I completely forgot about it. I agree with most of what you wrote, the only thing that I would suggest is to make the white shirt cuff an optional item instead of a mandatory one. We cannot see white shirt cuffs in the screencaps of the party in SOLO.
- charlyselo and bobafett4ever
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