GDMorti
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Posts posted by GDMorti
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It's just another rank bar and code cylinder combination. Can't see why it can't be added to the line CRL as has been suggested.
Sounds good!
The only tricky part is nailing down that consistency issue of number of cylinders etc. Could possibly have it as a basic rule everyone follow the "Tarkin" setup? Four dosimeter style cylinders with correct rank bar on a fieldgrey uniform? Should someone then want to emulate say, the Moff in the comics in the first post, that could be something pursued at Level 3? -
Might not be too much of an issue if the colour is right and you can still cover your scalp beneath? I know that the spray hair colour and the coloured waxes might be good for coverage, unsure how they'd fare on your skin beneath though as that would need to be blue if visible through the shorter hair!
- rattleandburn and Tentayena
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45 minutes ago, Mac said:
Why the big debate kris has shown more then enough references he's a main character in the game we should happy to have another choice for the members and a new crl it seems to be the same people constantly wanting everything there own way
Not sure myself tbh. Was a proposition for the LMO team, decision still sits with them. Why it's blown up into eight pages I'll never know. XD
"it seems to be the same people constantly wanting everything there own way " - my thoughts exactly.- rattleandburn and Tentayena
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36 minutes ago, lantern2745 said:
I have a question RE including the generic female FO in with the Hask CRL.
For the Generic Female FO Officer to be part of the CRL, shouldn't there have to be an actual generic female FO officer costume submitted?
Setting aside the fact that the two costumes are you know... Not the same.
The costume that has been made is Hask. It has all the accessories for Hask. It has photos for... Ronald McDonald? No, it has photos for Hask.
To me this would be like lumping Grand Moff Tarkin together with Director Krennic. The colors are a little off, and the seams aren't exact, and one has different accessories, but they're both officers right?Even if every seam was identical - it has been shown that they aren't - it has also been shown that the colors are different.
Line Officer and Staff Officer. Every stitch is the same, but they're not the same CRL because they're not the same costume.
That's my two cents. It's only worth .014 GBP, but it is what it is.
- Jeff
First up, it's not a generic "female" we're suggesting. Just a generic CRL that would accommodate all genders. Gender plays no role in these costume designs outside of fit, and that is something you'd handle from person to person regardless of gender.
There was no Colonel or Captain costume created for the combo-rank Major and Lieutenant First Order CRL's that went out recently, just a re-wording.
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Good luck buddy! Do us proud!
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Either way I'm always a fan of a good coat.
I wonder if we'll see some grubbier officers, and whether they will make their way into our ranks. Been doing a lot of weathering practice for a different costume at the moment and its all interesting stuff! Would certainly make group photographs uh.. different!
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On 14/04/2018 at 11:47 AM, Tutanchseth said:
As I'm planning to revive my legends Thrawn (and do a Rebels Thrawn in the future), can you recommend any tutorials @GDMorti?
I've not applied the makeup myself however I believe @rattleandburn was gonna do a full/half face Thrawn tutorial!
I can give some very basic makeup tips like use of eyeliner (specifically in the waterline) and contour but it might just be best to scour Youtube and/or wait for Vanya's Thrawn tutorial since it'll specifically cover bodypaint and doing everything in blue. XD -
2 hours ago, buckrogersbarker said:
We don’t even know for sure what we will see in this movie. Shouldn’t we be careful of ceding territory?
This, tbh!
"Mud Trooper" the hint is in the name. And yeah Woody's character is very likely in disguise (we can only assume) but who knows, we might find out these are officers, and there might be more iterations of this than Woody's character!
That coat is slick! Looks heavier than R1, a thicker kinda rubbery material? -
8 hours ago, Hux said:
Yeah we obviously wouldn't go into such details in the crl. Great details for the forums though. But yeah on the one it looked like it was a box pleat type deal. (Closed) and then Hask is a slit. Then the BF2 generic is just closed and a bell shaped skirt.
Rear vent area on Hask's model, texture stripped away and rotated so we can get a cheeky upskirt, as it were:
It's more than a slit, there is a large amount of overlap.
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1 hour ago, Hux said:
K. So I am gonna show you guys this.
Now keep in mind this will change. This is just a test but I want you all to see why we generally do not do over two changes on a CRL without giving it an entirely new one.
This looks weird and I think is really going to confuse GMLS. (as as LMO is my goal to NOT happen). Click twice to make larger.
To my eye there are just to many changes and looks wonky.
Krennic is a good example of a CRL where there are MULTIPLE CONFIGURATIONS.
NOT Different like items.
Hask has completely different Items from the generic officer. Which is why this isnt working.
So I cant just throw it as optional like Krennic, cause they arent optional. They are HASK ONLY items.
I hope this is making sense...
How the variables are handled looks fine to me. And the variables even get their own pictures, labelled to show the difference? That's brilliant, and actually better than how every other IOC CRL containing variables is doing it at the moment. Best example being the Line/Staff officer Code Cylinders. Four separate types are listed there as myself and others have mentioned, no pictures like this.
- Hux, bjsavage7, rattleandburn and 1 other
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1 minute ago, Exaldear said:
Yes, people would lose their minds because it's a stupid idea. Tactically speaking, a surrender and acceptance of your fate would be a smart move here. There has been plenty of evidence supplied against your argument, and you have riled up the IOC.
3 minutes ago, CommanderBaz said:i get the impression some people like the sound of their voice/opinion a little too much.
Please dont be arrogant or dismissive just because we disagree.
There seems to be more voices for than against here with compelling reasons.
Hask should have a crl or otherwise i think Hux (an overrated character) should have its crl downgraded.
Now im not wasting anymore time arguing the toss for toss sake.
There has been a lot discussed on both sides of this subject. And it appears we've now apparently resorted to personal attacks, digs and aggressive tones. Yet I'm being accused of being arrogant or dismissive? If people can't voice their opinions and thoughts on a subject they feel passionate about, -AGAIN-, in this detachment without fear of being browbeaten etc then democracy is dead. If other points of view are not going to be welcomed and taken into consideration, decisions made without consultation of the members etc, then what is the point of any of this. I've already said that everything going on in here is just words. I've previously said that I accept the LMO's rulings, I'm not doing this to convince anyone, or "to win". I would just like my opinion to be noted in the decision making process.
I stand by every word I have said here. Plenty of past evidence of CRL's permitting variants exists, including our two staples, Staff and Line.The only reason I could see for two separate CRL's to exist in this situation, when one would perform the job extremely adequately, would be purely out of desire to see it happen. No logic and no other reason. GML's have been working from CRL's covering and including variants for years.
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1 minute ago, CommanderBaz said:
Err facial specifics is part of the costume surely?
Grand Moff Tarkin is my point which you seem to have bypassed.
Tarkin (and Thrawn, and Hux) have come up a couple of times in this thread. I'm unsure why I'm clarifying myself again.
If we were talking about creating a Tarking, or a Thrawn, or a Hux, for the very first time, brand new. Yes I would probably be saying "we need a Generic CRL for their uniform, and then make that hero face character an optional appearance specification."
But they already exist, and people would lose their minds if we removed them, or merged them, so we aren't suggesting that. What I'm saying is, my logic here absolutely would apply, I think, to those "hero" characters. BUT they already exist, so they are unfortunately exempt.
We made a generic Lieutenant and not a Mitaka (we made a Hux and then a Generic General and we thought Mitaka would go the same way) is to avoid uneccessary clutter of CRL's for a facial specification. Dawn has already said, if this was PURELY down to facial specification, without any question Hask would not get his own CRL. Can we stop going round in circles with this point?1 minute ago, Exaldear said:Just like the make up for Maul is part of the costume, or Savaage, or the paint job of specific clones, or the paint job of the mandalorians (or else the Mando mercs would be 501st because it's just the costume, and there's is the plates and helmet)
See above.
- xAlpha and rattleandburn
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Just now, tristanuk said:
To me "Generic Officer" and "Hask" are as different as "Generic Jedi" and "Luke Skywalker". We all grumble and moan at the inaccuracies, differences and ambiguities in CRL's, and having them separate enables the staff and members to create a more accurate and more importantly understandable definition of the costume.
This is a no-brainer in my mind.
Holding Hask up to Luke Skywalker is a bit of a reach don't you think? XD
Separate CRL's creates a bunch of work when we come to amend something. Hux underwent a huge overhaul and was vastly improved. That was a while ago and the Generic General is still sat as it was, so now if someone wanted to clear a General they would be held to a different standard as someone wanting to clear specifically a Hux when its the same costume?? -
Imperial Cadet. Optional Helmet Accessory:
Helmet - Open faced style helmet consists of a dome and a faceplate.
- Made of plastic, resin or fiberglass.
- Dome and Face plate are painted white.
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Dome Requirements are as follows:
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Has the following options:
- Regular Imperial Cadet without markings on the Dome.
- Jai Kell: With blue markings and corresponding patterns.
- Zare Leonis : With yellow markings and corresponding patterns.
- Oleg: with green markings and corresponding patterns.
- (2) black vent rectangles with one curved side pointing to the middle of the helmet above the eyes.
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Has the following options:
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Face plate Requirements are as follows:
- Face plate is white, matching the same color as the dome.
- Eye sockets meet in the middle and use a flat dark lens.
- Black frown runs across the front and angles upward at each side.
- Two black vent squares are present underneath each eye.
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There are two round "Air Filtration Nozzles", one on each side of the mouth, with (5) black vent lines. (3) spaced in the middle between them. (Two vertical and one Horizontal) (2) on top of the nozzles (one on each).
Three characters wear their helmets with very obvious visual differences. Did they all get a CRL? No.
I could honestly do this all day.
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2 minutes ago, CommanderBaz said:
I’m a cleared level 3 Imperator for Staff Officer - emulation chosen was Commander Praji.
There was no specifics about facial hair or scars etc so hence why it does not have its own crl.
If a Character like Hask has specifics including facial hair, scar then yes it should have its own crl after all that’s why Grand Moff Tarkin has his own crl due to the face/hair features - or should we downgrade that crl to a generic admiral?
I really don’t see why we can’t accept this and just keep arguing the toss to be frank?
Sent from my iPad using TapatalkFacial specifics isnt in question here. This has been mentioned a number of times. It's costume differences.
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10 minutes ago, Exaldear said:
There's two line officer CRLs. Generic, and Tarkin.
It's simple, Hask is a hero character.
Hux is a hero character
Thrawn is a hero character
Tarkin is a hero character
None of them are just a regular officer, and each one requires specific facial make up to get them approved. Thrawn's uniform is exactly the same as the legends GA, Hux is exactly the same as the FO General, Tarkin has an undershirt. You want Hask to be a generic, then make them generics first, but there will be backlash from the 501st, and those who went after those face characters, those hero characters.
Hask, is different from the in game model for play, that has been proven.
There is nothing to say that you couldn't have generic "uniform" CRL's, with facial specs for the Hero characters as you say. To be honest it would make for far less work for LMO's, and it would mean that for Hux for example, all Generals are built exactly the same (at the moment the CRL's for Hux and Generic have a large number of differences....) and if an applicant wanted to submit specifically for Hux? They follow that facial spec and clear that way. Grand Admirals with Thrawn specs, and Tarkin as a Line officer.
BUT. Those CRL's all currently exist and there is no way that they will be merged, I believe this was already covered.
SO. Moving forward, it was proposed that all NEW UNIFORM CRL's, of which the Battlefront 2 kit is for example, would be "generic CRL" which could have facial specs added to for specific characters. People already emulate specific face character/named officers for Executor etc, this would just officiate the process and is what happened for the FO Lieutenant/Captain and the FO Major/Colonel. This worked fine, and was accepted. And life went on.Hask gets a CRL and Battlefront 2 FO Officer gets a CRL? We look at pulling apart FO Lieutenant and FO Captain into separates. We also need separate TLJ Lieutenant and Captains I would suggest. TLJ Colonel/Major too because construction changes from movie to movie and a number of other things. I'd also ask why the Staff and Line officer CRLs allow for so many variables, of the kind I have already pointed out. Hask gets his own CRL because "GML's would be confused" perhaps yet the Staff and Line CRL's have been fine for all these years with their variables and options? Do we need to pull apart the Staff and Line to permit all the different variables into their own CRL's and give them all names accordingly? (Such as all the different Aphra's for example.) Where does it end? If the answer is "it ends with Hask" then -why-?
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There are so many instances of CRL's being combined or including variables/options that I really cannot see why this situation should be treated any differently. It's two or three extremely minor differences.
A CRL containing "And/Or" to differentiate between a handful of differences, accessories, construction methods etc has worked fine for plenty of IOC CRL's. For this to suddenly be something we start to do, I cannot understand.
Taking facial specifications completely out of the equation of course, and focusing solely on costume differences. That is the crux of this argument. -
10 minutes ago, Exaldear said:
There is not though. Enough evidence has been submitted and the LMO has backed this up (from me skimming over) for there to be a generic and Hask CRL, just like generic line officer and Grand Moff Tarkin (by your argument that should be 1 CRL), Thrawn and the legends Grand Admiral should be the same, the FO General and General Hux should be the same.
Hask, being modelled differently, with different colours, additional gear, and facial features such as the scar, compared to the generic in game player controlled model are two separate CRLs, and should be written by the person who actually made the costume, then we can argue over the wording like grey or freaking black.
Of course it's all in the LMO's hands from here, to be honest it has always been up to them, this is just a discussion thread. We'll see what happens of course, in the meantime there is nothing to stop myself or any others discussing the issue though is there? Myself and several others are just as able to air their concerns about this subject as anyone else.
Regarding Tarkin, Legends Thrawn and Hux.. it's already been discussed in the past when this same topic came up. Yeah if we go by this ruling or proposal, they probably wouldn't get their own CRLs, Tarkin especially not. (We only see Hux in that particular uniform of his, ever. But yeah he'd probably just be "First Order General" with a Hux facial appearance spec. One rule for all.) There's no way that previous CRL's are going to be eradicated and merged, can you even imagine how that would go down? It's what we do and how things go moving forward that counts. What we've been doing with the latest CRL's, whether there is any semblance of consistency in how things will go from case to case. If someone submits a new to legion costume, it'd be useful and engender confidence in the applicant if there was known consistency as to how it would be handled.
I had thought that CRL's brought up for discussion in threads here on the detachment, meant that others could give their input. I've done a lot of research on the costume myself, so here I am, giving input. I appreciate that Mark has said that this might not be the case for future CRLs, but right here and right now, the discussion was open so I'm discussing.
Of note: nobody is discussing CRL text specifics, i.e: "grey or freaking black", right now and haven't been for almost a page of comments. Because this subject is more important to settle first I'd think. Members of the forum such as you and me can discuss, argue, debate or whatever, all we like but in the end it's up to the powers that be to make these calls. I just hope that all the discussion, suggestions and information put forward in this thread are combed through prior to the decision being made, which I feel that they are, so that's only a good thing surely? Make sure that as many bases as possible have been covered?
I also don't really think that any of this discussion is holding up the CRL at all. The LMO team and IOC staff (one of whom this build itself belongs to..) I would think are able to move forward whenever they wish. Make the decisions they need etc. There's no discussion taking place on CRL text itself so I guess that'll be up to them to decide upon. If the discussions here -are- slowing the process then I can only be thankful that staff and the LMO team are taking the time to listen to the detachment's members before pulling that trigger. And in the end that's all I can ask for. -
1 hour ago, captsafe66 said:
I want to bring up a point as to specific characters. For example, the Black staff officer for ANH, was generic for all the ANH Officers, but, the L3 requires that screen used officer is emulated for Imperator. There are just too many different Officers to make a separate CRL for all of them. But you can do an L3 version of any of them you wish.
The same will apply for the Generic FO Officers. We will add that to the L3 for the FO Officer CRL, to be similar to the other officers.
I'd love to have a separate CRL for every Officer, but that just isn't in the cards.
If someone creates a costume for the FO/Battlefront Officer(Generic), we can explore that CRL as well.
Just as a matter of record, I was all for the Mitaka CRL originally, but the LMO felt differently.
I understand and support the L3 requirements to emulate a specific officer. You're entirely right, and it's a truth I came to terms with following the FO Lieutenant not being published as Mitaka. We cannot make a CRL for every officer, it'd be ridiculous. XD But as you say, you can specify even at basic if you so wish, just gives you a head start when you aim for levels two and three!
When you say: "If someone creates a costume for the FO/Battlefront Officer(Generic), we can explore that CRL as well."
That's essentially what we're discussing here. That there is only a Battlefront 2 First Order Officer CRL. That there should not be a Hask specific CRL.
If we take "extra configurations" out of the picture for a moment. I know they're a recent thing and they work really well IMO with Krennic etc but lets pretend they never existed and see how we used to deal with small variables in the same costume in the past. I'm looking at the Staff and Line officer CRLs. I hear what you're saying entirely in that they cover a -huge- pool of officers, named specifically and with their own little quirks from movie to movie.
However. In all the years of those CRLs existing, they've served their purpose, and covered all the little differences between screen reference of the same uniform, adequately.
How the Line Officer CRL handles the visual differences in rank bars:
"Color quantity and combinations are determined by rank, and are appropriate to uniform type.-
Examples:
- No Grand Moffs wear black uniforms with hats.
- Grand Admiral rank matches Grand Admiral uniform (etc.) "
The same CRL handles -four- different variables in code cylinder:
Between 1 to 4 per costume may be worn.- Modified: silver "chalk holder" tube with short clip and blue colored top.
- Rod style: machined aluminum rod with flaring disc detail at top
- Dosimeter style: True Dosimeter with correct clip and blue top.
- Alternate Style: Silver clip with no blue top.
It handles a very obvious visual difference in belt snap (a minor detail but a visible difference in placement, exactly the same as we're talking between Hask specifically and the Generic), but leaves it to the wearer to make that decision, allowing them to do whichever they like:
"A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) from the buckle.- The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer."
Everyone "gets" that they're the same uniform. But from officer to officer, movie to movie, there have been little changes here and there. One CRL has managed to cover a LOT of little differences here, and we've all be fine with it, and following these CRL's the costumes have managed to become the second most popular set of costumes in the Legion.
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Examples:
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52 minutes ago, Hux said:
So you would say that an item that has clear hooks on the front should be overlooked?
Not saying that at all!
Both Kris' proposed CRL text in the early pages of this thread, did not specify the bent code cylinder hooks that Hask has on his cylinders. This differs a lot from standard movie FO Cylinders, which is all that is available on the maker market right now unless one were to pursue a custom build. Mine also omitted these bent cylinder hooks from basic, because I feel it reasonable to allow accurate First Order cylinders at basic clearance level. I did however suggest that the bent hooks for Hask could be a higher clearance stipulation.
I think specifying no hooks is unreasonable at a basic level of clearance. Even -if- generic got their own CRL, I think that would be a higher clearance subject, much like Hask's bent hooks which are specific to him and not a standard First Order thing. It'd be something an applicant could include, or not, when aiming to portray a specific officers appearance for their Imperator or Executor clearance here on the IOC.
A Hask at Imp/Exec level would need the seams in -exactly- screen accurate locations. Same for a person wanting to portray specifically the appearance of that petite redhead with the bun in the Generic uniform. I would say that was fair and reasonable?
As for the placement of the princess seams on the front for the generic female officers. Here is a decent (if unglamorous) screencap:
Hask's seams run on the outside of the code cylinders.
It's the same seam, it's just been budged around to improve upon the fit. Same as it would be on a real life costume. My best example of this happening would be if you check out the visual dictionary for TLJ. Peavey and Canady are of a similar build so their princess seams sit in relatively the same place. Finn in disguise? Check out where his princess seams lie due to his different body type. He's in a Captain's uniform too. All three will have had tailor made "hero" costumes rather than off the rack extras etc. You move these things around based on the body type. My CRL text recommends this construction difference and seam placement for women, and the Hask placement for men, but it's just a suggestion. The text itself says that the princess seams MUST be there as they appear on both models, but the placement can be EITHER X or Y. And the decision to do this based on the gender you wish to appear is purely a suggestion.
This seam placement, is the only difference in construction I can see between the two uniforms. And it makes sense logically from a fitting point of view, -plus- I think my CRL text makes a reasonable allowance for either without saying men or women NEED to pick one etc. Far be it from me to restrict CRL's based on gender! -
For what it's worth, I'm not trying to debate that the differences between Hask and the Generic do not exist.
I'm saying: I can see no real reason why a separate CRL would need to be created for differences so minor. One CRL works for -all- First Order Captains and Lieutenants in the movies and I can't see why it wouldn't work here.Admittedly I feel that FO Cap/LT does need updating with TLJ specifics - again in order to best explain and show the handful of differences to GML's should a costumer wish to portray a TFA officer (especially for Imperator/Executor here on the IOC). A few of us were going to get together and work on that when we had the energy and high quality versions of the movies to pore over. But I digress!
Krennic's CRL manages to cover three separate costumes. Three! Two as new configurations which by all rights could very easily have been their own CRL's. Even I fought for the raincoats to have their own CRL back in the day and I'm glad that the configurations proved me wrong.
I was also rather upset that we didn't get a Mitaka CRL, nor a Mitaka appearance specification. However the logic and reasoning behind -why-, made sense. It's not the outcome I wanted but its the one that was right for the CRL at the end of the day. I had a vested interest in "getting what I wanted" from that CRL being as I helped write the thing I will admit. But the same logic and reasoning behind both the configs for Krennic, and how the Lieutenant CRL was rolled out (re: face character stuff) seem to be vacant from this argument. :T That's what concerns me.
I'm going to see what I can do about getting models pulled from the game if that would help. Unfortunately the person I asked to get some model info in the past is on vacation so I might take some time. XD But again, I'm not debating at this point that there are no differences, so I'm unsure what further reference will achieve. -
3 minutes ago, Hux said:
Ok at this point I will ask.
Could someone get me reference side by side of Hask and a FO officer from the game?
We know (and can see) the movie ones. We have clear clear in movie side by side ref
We know that Mitaka is no different in any kind of construction from any other FO officer and if it was it would warrant another CRL.
(if i am wrong please do not hesitate to correct me) Please do not use face as an example we dont take that into account due to inclusions and individuality of normal human faces.
Also yes the decision to make that ONE CRL was 100% me, Not Mark and not any other member on this staff. I know that created drama so to clear that up please do not fault them for my decision. I take full responsibility for my actions but I will ask. what are the differences between Mitika and other FO officers?
It's not that Mitaka was different from other Lieutenants.
It's that TFA Lieutenants are different from TLJ Lieutenants. And TFA didn't even have Captains for us to base any judgement on. The CRL had "Captain" added and was released shortly after TLJ came out, without any input from the IOC as a whole, discussion, etc.
And I wasn't naming any names or wanting to go back to exactly what happened when the CRL came out, just highlighting that if one CRL can do the job for a uniform with such a big number of variants between movies (and ranks) why would this one be any different?
I'll see what I can do with regards to getting a model pull from BF2 of the Generic and more high quality references etc. Bear with! -
If we're going to pull up LFL's discussion lets at least include the full story rather than just the bits we like:
Holsters for FO generals / Hux
in CRL Updates
Posted
Probably reasonable to add this to the other FO CRL's too. Finn and DJ have them with blasters for Captains and Lieutenants, and Rose has one for a Major. They all seem to share the same design which is useful!