Oh gosh, I forgot this was coming out! Really looking forward to seeing Vanto (I sort of fell in love with him in the book). Having looked at a single panel from the Polygon article I think the single blue tile is meant to be Cadet.
Just finished the first issue of the Comic Adaptation of Thrawn. Must say I'm pretty happy with it. There are some great details in the illustrations, AND we even get a new Rank Plaque (One Single Lonely Blue Tile, possibly Ensign, for Cadet Vanto). Very much looking forward to the remainder of this series!
Possibly the most off topic of all off topic threads! But I noticed that there were 501st generic facebook profile frames, and Rebel Legion ones and stuff. So I looked into it and there wasn't an IOC frame! aaaaand then I made one.
Should be able to find and apply it by searching ioc or imperial officer corp in the frame application bit!
A person in the real world cannot photoshop themselves blue and go walk around
Being blue is necessary for being able to properly portray Thrawn
Some amount of makeup skill is required to troop in this costume
The thing is, I think MOST of us were waiting for a crl draft or an updated WIP
I know I was. I was approved so late in the game and didn’t start really lurking here until late may. Dragging up old things that never seemed to reach a consensus didn’t seem smart, and every other CRL thread I’ve lurked on has posted a revised version before going live
Regardless, the points above are worth discussing, especially with the references provided to improve the crl itself.
We're not changing colors of things?I assume this is refering to the chroming suggestion, you can chrome/metal coat in other colors besides silver and I thought that did not need to be stated that gold was the intention. If that was unclear, I apologize!
A lot of what was stated here is NOT tiny details. Curved back seams versus straight seams is a very large, very obvious detail specific to the grand admiral costume and should be treated as such. Arm seams is not a dead horse, its right there and there are many images from the show and the discussion within this thread did not come to a coherent conclusion. If you're wondering where I was when the specifics of the arm seams were being discussed, the answer is Norway, Ukraine, and Canada with limited internet access.
Nowhere did I address the photoshopping of makeup, frankly that is not my problem nor my concern. Accuracy of sewn garments is my jam. The makeup commentary in my post was about additional documents to help the community, and/or for those following this thread with interest in Thrawn. It wasn't an attack.
The fact of the matter is, that there was some debate and discussion ongoing here, which is great. Followed by a CRL going live without a draft or updated WIP posted for discussion beforehand; that's an issue, and the errors within the CRL that no doubt result from not having that 'peer review' stage require fixing.
No one has posted anything new in this thread since the kerfluffle and resulting post in the "Thrawn CRL Pic Debate" thread, in which we were directed back to THIS thread for discussion on inaccuracies. I am very much a commissioner and lurker, not an active poster, and I have been following this thread from the start - most of the issues I would like to bring up have been addressed in the past in this thread, but were looked over in the creation of the CRL so now I think it's important to actually come in and speak up about it. Thrawn is a character who has greatly grown in popularity recently and well-loved by even the children and casual fans in the fandom, its a disservice to a great many people both within the 501st and those who enjoy seeing their favorite characters at troops to not aim to do our best in creating guidelines. I am not trying to say here that I am 100% factually accurate on everything, just that this is what I see with the readily available reference, and my own suggestions for things that are missing from the CRL entirely, or things that I think could help everyone interested in costuming Thrawn.
Hair and Skin Appearance For 501st approval:
§ All exposed skin is colored blue.
§ Hair is close-cropped and dark blue or black.
§ Makeup is contoured and shaded as to give an angular appearance with cheeks and jaw.
For level two certification (if applicable):
§ Hair looks natural, and is styled in a way as to not give the appearance of a wig.
§ Hair is dark-blue.
Proposed changes:
As contoured cheeks and jaw are already specified, specify contoured forehead as well, as the new Chiss design features a brow area as prominent as the cheeks and jaw.
Specify a light/teal blue; there are many paint options in many pricepoints and while Legends Thrawn is open to interpretation Rebels Thrawn has a solid visual reference.
Best available products:
Kryolan Aquacolor, light blue + green teal mix (inexpensive, easy to use, available for online order in most territories. You can contour with it in a darker color as well if desired. Best noob makeup artist option as it lasts very well with proper sealing for all-day wear)
Ben Nye Magicake, they have many blue and teal, some very close to Rebels Thrawn’s skintone (inexpensive,easy to use, would suggest powder contour with this brand. Application is the same as Aquacolor, but does not have quite as much longevity – it is however very cheap. #2 noob makeup artist option, #1 cheap option)
Kryolan Supracolor, dark teal or light blue + green teal mix. (more expensive, is grease based so slightly harder to use but provides cleaner/smoother coverage. Can contour in dark color if desired)
Vibe, water based liquid makeup from European Body Art. (mid-range price, lasts a long time. Liquids are very easily mixable for different colors, but they do have an existing teal that is a pretty good match! Suitable for airbrush or sponge/brush hand application. Would suggest either contour with same, or powder contour once dried. Mid-level makeup ability option)
Endura Alcohol Based Makeup, from European Body Art (Very similar to Vibe, slightly more expensive, extremely good coverage and versatility. Extremely long wear. Can contour with same, or powder makeup. They have an existing turquoise/teal that is a great tone, as well as more greenish or dark blue to mix if you like. This is my favorite makeup for body paint applications, and if sealed properly you will not have any rub-off on your collar and sleeve cuffs. Best higher-level makeup ability option)
For contour/detailing:
multi-color powder pallete from coastalscents.com (It can be difficult to find blue eyeshadow or similar as it is not on trend, this website provides inexpensive (10-20$) palletes of many colors, they will last a long time and have good coverage and will make contouring easy.)
Blue hair should not be a level two cert. It is an obvious visual aspect of the character and integral to his overall look. This is not a too daunting if you know where to look! there are a multitude of good quality blue hairsprays on the market. If you’re in the US, Sally Beauty Supply has a range of options in the 5-10$ range, internationally they’re on Amazon and Ebay. If you have short hair, or an existing wig in similar style, you can style your hair and use this spray instead of a regular hair product and match the visual appearance of the character with very minimal effort.
I’m very well versed in this as I cut and dyed my hair blue for Thrawn and am super lazy and need to cover up my roots a lot; here are some relevant products, NONE of these are permanent, all wash out fully with shampoo:
Jerome Russel B Wild spray in blue (US/International, 5.99 USD)
Superdrug Color Hairspray, blue (UK, 2.99 £)
Color Bombz temporary hair spray, blue (US, Sally Beauty. International, Amazon 5.99$)
Kryolan Color spray, blue (for theatrical applications, available internationally through most makeup supply websites. 9.99$)
There are more but these are those readily available at beauty shops, some Target stores, and easily searchable on Amazon.
Additionally: There are other CRLS, like Kylo, that have ‘offshoot’ documents detailing specific aspects. For a character like Thrawn, having one to focus on makeup and hair would be beneficial to a lot of people who may be new to this aspect of costuming, and I am sure there are people here (myself included) who would be glad to assist.
Tunic, White For 501st approval:
§ Fabric is white and of a suiting material matching the pants.
§ Tunic is double-breasted with a left over right closure on the tapered yoke.
§ Yoke comes up across the shoulder to the top shoulder seam.
§ The standing collar has square corners.
§ It closes snugly, flush and includes a modesty panel behind the closure.
§ There are code cylinder pockets on both outside panels of the jacket from about half way between the top and bottom on the arm hole.
§ Sleeves are long, with curved shoulder cap and without additional decoration, cuffs or buttons.
§ There is a line on each sleeve curving from the middle of the arm pit over the arm in a modified U or bell curve shape connecting to the shoulder cap seams. This line is distinguished by a seam or some other tailoring method.
§ Tunic is constructed with no top-stitching (stitches visible on the exterior surface of fabric)
For level two certification (if applicable):
§ The back of the tunic has princess seams that run vertically to the shoulder seam, meeting the front yoke seam
§ There is no fitting dart in the centre of the yoke.
§ The curved U arm line is black.
For level three certification (if applicable):
§ Tunic is secured on the right side by snaps or buttons.
§ No hook and loop fasteners (Velcro).
Proposed Changes:
Straight back seams should be moved to first-level certification. All reference of Rebels Thrawn (besides the Black Series Limited Edition figure, which it looks like they just re-used the Tarkin sculpt for) show straight back seams, and we have a front/side/back of the official design and 3D model thanks to Rebels animation team.
From a patterning and seamstress standpoint, this feature is no more difficult than regular officer seam lines. If you have an existing officer tunic pattern, you can pin the center back and side back pieces together, draw a line following the princess seam up to the shoulder, and you have redrafted your piece to suit the look. This is likely within the skill level of most who are sewing their own costume, and I would guess all who commission imperial tunics.
Everyone's seen this photo obviously as it's at the start of the thread, but it does quite clearly show straight back seams as part of his original specific design here.
Re-open discussion on U-curved arm seam. Going back through the CRL discussion thread, there was never a solid consensus on this subject. We have the front/side/back view of the character model (below) rendered in neutral lighting. This shows an arm seam of the same grey tone as the other seams in Thrawn’s uniform. It appears to be rendered as a seam line in the flat texture of the garment as are the rest of the seams on his uniform, not a separate style of detailing that would require a dark appearance, piping, etc as discussed. It looks as though it may be a slightly thicker line as drawn than, for example, his back seams. Others have suggested in the thread its like a shadow/shading from it; you could produce a more demarcated seam to provide this by pressing your seam allowance one way or the other rather than pressing open, it would appear a little thicker and more obvious.
Here's a couple screengrabs showing him in different lighting; even if/when the U-curve line looks very dark, its the same shade as the other seams right beside it.
Golden Epaulets. As per animation/modelling logic for the tunic discussed above, Rebel Thrawn's epaulets end abruptly before reaching the ends of his shoudlers so as to avoid his arms clipping into them as they move.. i.e. his shoulder seam exists, and then his arm goes past it; this isn’t easily producible in a costume that is well fitted to a real life person. I would suggest looking at where Thrawn’s epaulets sit in relation to his yoke and shoulder seams, and come to a consensus about width. It already states no overlap of seams which is very good, but a lower limit on sizing in comparison to shoulder area available (as we can see how much of the shoulder seam to yoke seam space is occupied) would assist with uniformity of appearance and accuracy, perhaps as a level 2/3 cert.
Also consider: chrome coat/vacuum metalizing as materials suggestion. Metal is higher level cert right now, this is more accessible to the masses who don't have machining capabilities if they are able to foam/worbla/wood/3Dprint/whatever their epaulets to specifically match their body size, and have them metal coated to perfection. Link to types of chrome finishing, not all are relevant chrome coating
Thrawn’s epaulets sit fully flush to the shoulders, not at all raised and with no visible means of attachment beneath them. If possible, the epaulets should have a recess beneath for Velcro/chosen fixture so as not to create a raised bump or gap effect when applied, resulting in a smooth, flush fit – for level 2/3 cert
Example to illustrate recessed fixture:
Holster:
Sizing guide as to where the holster should end. See visual reference below. We have a solid guide to sizing provided in the cartoon. Too small or too large would be quite noticeable. As you can see it hangs slightly below the hem of the tunic. Perhaps wording like “Holster end approximately 1-3” below hem of tunic” to provide wiggle room, for higher level cert.
Officer Boots:
This appears to be copy-paste from Legends Thrawn CRL. For Legends Thrawn we never had an accurate boot reference, for Rebels Thrawn we do (below) and they are shown as flat-top boot only, no Spanish style riding boots. As it stands, specifically flat-top accurate boots are not even listed as a higher level cert. Due to solid evidence, it would be best put as basic approval (and it’s a fair assumption that most IOC members have some form of officer boot already unless this is their first costume build!) so it shouldn’t be undue hardship. If not basic level, it should at least required for a level 2/3 cert.
Optional Accessories
Gloves were discussed in thread previously, and I am not against being allowed to wear gloves with this costume at all. Making up your hands in body paint, especially with a white uniform, can prove difficult. However, he has not been seen wearing gloves in new canon media. I would suggest adding (not removing black leather) blue skintone gloves to the accessory list. It’s a common trick with body paint cosplayers, you use nylon tights in the right color and make very form-fitting gloves. Welovecolors.com has an extensive range, including many blues and teals to match most makeups. This is inexpensive, and can provide a little more visual accuracy, with the added bonus of improved dexterity/being able to use your phone when worn.
And this is a friendly suggestion for a product not many people know exists, not a CRL commentary: there are half-sclera lenses bigger than standard red contacts but smaller/easier to use/cheaper than full eye scleras. They provide significantly more coverage and look great in photos, without the discomfort of full scleras. You can find them at sclera-lenses.com
This is not meant to be an end-all, be-all or “I’m right, you’re not!” post and I definitely want the input of others on my points and/or reference to prove me incorrect. This is just what I see with the reference available, and products or items that I think can help us all be the best Thrawn we can be.
Vanto reacted to DarthFunk83 in Thrawn (Comic Adaptation)