buckrogersbarker

Thanks everyone for the advice. I got so excited about doing my first troop, I completely forgot about the glasses. I think for the time being, Ill use contact lenses (even though Ive been avoiding contact lenses all my life). Ive got an appointment with my optometrist this week, so we'll see how that goes. 

I am going to be trying these guys this week for a set of boots.  Argentinapolo.com 

I was at an equestrian center in Aiken, SC last Friday and they said it is near impossible to find English style riding boots in a size for most men.  But Polo being as big as it was in Argentina has a complete industry set up around manufacturing everything you can imagine for playing the sport, including these boots.  Their turn around time is pretty quick too.  I plan on ordering this weekend.

I wear my black hat (the one I troop with) before and after troops all the time. It's easier to put all my hair up in it at home, and just keep it up there after the troop until I get home. Now that I have the black and green hats Disney sells in the parks I wear those after troops. I've never been harassed, or complimented, or even had a comment made. I'm usually in my patch hoodie, but I've worn it out with a black winter coat and never had a problem then either.

Only time I have had someone make a Nazi comment to me was a photographer at a con, maybe in his early 20s, who asked me to "salute" and then did the Nazi salute to show me what he wanted. Honestly I was too shocked at what this kid was asking me to do that I could only stare in disbelief.

Anyway, that's just one person's experience. For reference I'm a white girl, pretty Aryan looking, living in the southern US, and I troop in pretty safe suburban areas. The only time I've wondered if someone might say something is riding the MARTA by myself to the DragonCon parade lineup, but even then I've been fine. But, your mileage may vary.

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The uniforms of star wars are based on original historical uniforms, mainly form the german military of 2nd world war. 
The uniform where made by a company in england famous for its uniforms. Some of the uniforms where made new other where lend  from the stock and just adjusted to look alike or similar. So ther is a big difference in quality, look and fit at least for some uniforms in the film. 
 
I'm a professional seamstress since 19 years and educated Patternmaker with my own studio since 10years. I'm Interested in costume history ever since. I have several books on this topic and made ton's of reasearch on historical uniforms even before I joined the 501st. I draw all patterns by myselfe based n the historical research and original pics.
Based on historical uniform pattern construction the waist line seam ist correct as well as several darts such as the one in center front at the collar and the other darts which are comming from the waist line. Also severeal seam lines like the 2nd short dividing seam at the back.
All these darts and seams are neccessary for a good pattern construction to ensure the perfect fit of the uniform. Since these uniforms have always a very thight fitting. 
Also the requested lining is correct. Most uniforms where at least partly lined. Most of the higher standard uniforms where fully lined.
 
I will upload some drawings of historical uniforms and breeches tonight so you can see what I am talking about.
 
All the uniforms I made for my fellow 501st members I constructed due to my research. They look very very close to the original screen.
The attached pic shows my lates commission for an Admiral Daala uniform. 
 

Actually I never said that we can't have a generic FO general in the 501st. I see no reason not to. That's basically Hux without the ginger hair requirement no? 
 
I'm thinking maybe I posted my response in the wrong thread. I was posting about generic officers in general not generic generals. 
 

 
My point was that I've read a bunch here on IOC and there's been a lot of banter and back and forth about other FO officers but no one has produced any screen references to look at. Blurry photos of the starkiller base lineup during Hux's Hilter speech aren't good enough for me.
 
I'm sorry for the confusion. 
 
-Eric

Has anyone made or has a picture of the new patch used by the troops under Grand admiral thrawn? i cant seem to find a good picture of them without movement distortion?

That is a sad story.  Making the one he wears in the Couruscant cocktail flashback.  I need something to drink in.

Just trying to figure out the rules here.  if there are two people in the same uniform it can be generic.  If you only see one person in it you have to do that person?  

That is a lot of nice work Philo.  It could be cleared up with a phone call by the right person to Lucasfilm.

 

then our rules and procedures do not serve us for the new movies... and maybe they won't for decades.  
 
You can't make people want to do costumes they weren't interested in when they are focused on something they want to do.  rules and procedures serve the membership.  and when they don't serve, new ones need to be proposed so that they DO serve.
 
that does not mean that people don't want the highest accuracy possible.  anyone that says that is what this means is mischaracterizing this.  In this case, we are not talking about details, we are asking is the one there the same as the one wore by Hux, the one we know the details of.  That is a yes or no questions.  That is almost like asking "is the stormtrooper in back the same as the stormtrooper in front?"  To say "no, we don't have any pictures of the stormtroopers in back" is the response we are getting.

Working on that right now with citations on where we get these ranks.  For example, Colonel Yularen's rank first called "colonel" in the Decipher card game from 1995.  It is canon now because of the recent Rebels episode.

I am not just listing ranks, am listing where they come from.  For example, Captain Kurghee's rank from ANH is also taken from the Decipher card game.  There was no rhyme or reason why these ranks were assigned and while it is what we call them now, they don't make much logical sense in light of Rogue One.  The same rank there is a general.
 
I am not making conjecture.  I am just listing everything out in every permutation and citing what we do know and where it comes from.  If we haven't seen it yet, it is left open.

Shoot me an email and I'll send you the excel file and a PDF of my work in progress.  

Untitled by Robert Barker, on Flickr

General Hux's uniform is a general's uniform.  The implications are this is what other Generals would wear.

I have the TFA book as well, and there are two high ranking officer types within the first order, Generals and Admirals. They differ only by the rank insignias, the outer lining for the General is black, for Admirals red.
 
The uniforms in the back of the speech scene are really confusing (except the two lieutenants on the far left, with there flashing code cylinders. The rest is unclear. The uniform of the officers in the blue box Looks like some sort of tunic like the style of the OT, but the officers in the red square are wearing a type of uniform similar to Hux.
Would be nice to know some other names of the actors in the scene. Bern is labeled as a FO-general in the imdb, but the entries there are not official.

Hi folks... LMO here. 
 
The rank or title is less important to me (general, lieutenant, sergeant, first class floor mopper) than screen references. The books are great as a backup reference but I'd like to see actual film screen captures of any costume that is proposed. Without screen references I'm loath to add it to our list of approved of costumes based on the front view in a book. 
 
Please post what images you have here for review. 
 
Here is the new costume approval wording: 
http://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:CharacterApproval
 
-Eric
 

Untitled by Robert Barker, on Flickr

Little something I have been working on.  It is a lot bigger than this.  Something that can track every permutation, if we have seen it on screen, where, EU, book, comic, etc.
What we know, what think, what we can prove.

Untitled by Robert Barker, on Flickr

Little something I have been working on.  It is a lot bigger than this.  Something that can track every permutation, if we have seen it on screen, where, EU, book, comic, etc.
What we know, what think, what we can prove.

I just hope they are not hinting at the Vong.  What a misstep that was taking the franchise down that rabbit hole.

Still, it is fantastic to read good prose again and Thrawn was a REAL leader.

That's up to discussion as well. But I have to say that because of our german history I wouldn't feel good making the cloak non optional. We all know that the costumes based on Nazi Germany personell. 

As one of the GMOs of the german garrison i already put her costume in the "new to the Legion" section in the international GMO/GWL Forum, but sadly with little feedback. So i really encourage this effort to get this CRL done to be able to approve her.
 
Greetings,
 
Raphael

Hey all.
In this thread I want discuss whether a generic FO General should be approvable for the 501st or not.
Lets start with the analysis of the first scene we see in the movie: The Hux speech.
 

 
You see Hux in the foreground and many other henchmen in the background. I assume that these Henchmen are other First Order Generals. 
In the following I will discuss why I assume this with references.
 
1) Hat

 
As you can see in the picture above, all henchmen wear the same hat. The same that General Hux wears. As you can see the colors are also the same.
The only other First Order personel who wears a hat are the Lieutenants. Here's a picture of Lieutenant Mitaka.
 

 
The henchmen in the background are not Lieutenants for two obvious reasons. Lieutenants have a kinda grey suit. The henchmen in the speech scene are clearly black. Also the hat of the lieutenants are grey matching to the suit. Furthermore the Lieutenants have code cylinders which you'd see on the henchmen. In fact you can see two of them wearing something there on the left, however they differ from the others.
 
2) Vest

 
I hope you can see it. If not enlarge the picture please. We know that Hux as a split in the vest. You really have to zoom in to see that the henchmen in the background have a split there too. But it is clearly there.
 
3) Collar

 
As you can see in the picture, every henchmen has the same collar as Hux. Since the Lieutenants and Technicians also have the collar, it's not a clear prrof that these are Generals, however it is a similarity.
 
4) Last but not least the belt:

 
Every henchmen wear the exact belt buckle as you can see in the picture above. Also the Lieutenants wear this kind of belt buckle but since the suit of the Lieutenants have a very different color, it can be stated, that the henchmen in the background are NOT Lieutenants. We also have Technicians in the ranks of the First Order.
 

 
As you can see the Technicians have a black suit but you can see that the belt buckle is missing. So for obvious reasons the henchmen in the background are not Technicians. (Why would Hux want to have technicians on the platform with all the high ranked First Order personell?)
 
In summary we can clearly assume that the henchmen are First Order Generals.
 
But that is not the only reference we have up to know. The LEGO Group released for the May the 4th event a Minifigure Polybag: First Order General. Furthermore at a german convention (Sci-Fi Days at the Technikmuseum Speyer) an actor was a special guest who played a "First Order General" : Bern Collaço.
 
http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Bern_Collaco
 
Quoted from the wiki article: "Bern Collaço is a British actor who played [ ... ] a general in the 2015 film Star Wars: The Force Awakens [...]"
 
The german event was not the only event where he attended as a special guest. Here is a picture of how Swindon Film and Comic Con 2016 announced Mr. Bern Collaço:

 
If you look for him on Facebook (you'll find him) you will see that he states to have played a General there too. "Storm Trooper Rogue One. 1ST Order General, Star Wars Episode VII TFA. CIA Agent, Mission Impossible 5:Rogue Nation. Train Car Diner, Spectre. "
 
Further more my local LMO who also talked to Bern Collaço at the event messaged him through Facebook and here is his reply:

 
At this point I want to say that you please desist from messaging him through his private facebook profile.
 
Based on all the references stated above my girlfriend Anna-Lena made a First Order General. I will "represent" her on the boards, since she doesnt have an account and according to her, her english isn't good enough. I have to accept the Generals opinion..hehe
 
Here are pictures of the costume:
 



 
 
Here is the draft for the CRL:
 
First Order General Hat, black

For 501st approval:
-The hat's brim is a black leather, or leather-like material protruding from the front bottom of the dome. It is curved in shape and does not obscure the wearer's eyes.
-The dome fits snugly on the head and cocks slightly back like a baseball cap.
-It is fitted to the head and does not cover the ears.
-There tall flap around the back half of the hat, snugly fitting around the dome.
-This piece is not higher than the dome of the hat, and does not overly flex outward. It is effectively vertical in respect to the rest of the hat, and viewed from the side, it's edges are tilted slightly back at an angle.
-The First Order emblem is centered in the front of the hat's dome. It is black and white.
 
For level two certification (if applicable):
-First Order insignia is a metal pin, centered in the front of the hat's dome. It's approx 1 1/2" wide & 1 3/4" tall.
-The dome has a subtlety curved seam separating the front panel from rest of the hat, with a similar seam on the back part of the dome, with one vertical seam down the dome's back.
 
Tunic, First Order General, Black

For 501st approval:
-Fabric is a smooth, light to medium weight suiting material exactly matching the pants and has a noticeable sheen.
-Tunic is fitted.
-The closure may use hidden side (or buck) clasps, or hook and eye closures.
-Sleeves are long, and without decoration, cuffs or buttons.
     -First Order patch and rank insignia are sewn down on the left arm only
-The collar is snugly fitting, classic-style, and has a visible closure panel across the front of the neck, covering the zipper slider or top clasp. **It may attach to the side of the neck by Velcro, hook and eye, or any closure that does not interfere with the look of the collar.
-Tunic has epaulettes across the shoulder, from the collar to top of the arm seam seam.
     -They are completely sewn down on all sides.
-There are princess seams on the front and back, and one vertical seam down the center of the back.
-There are two horizontal front pockets (double welt pockets) on both sides of closure, right below the belt.
-The pockets have a false opening (seams) right below the true openings and are the same length. These do not have to function. 
 
For level two certification (if applicable):
-Tunic material is a shiny, grosgrain or silk rayon, wrinkle-less material.
-There are two seams down the sleeves, continuing from the princess seams on the front and back.
-Tunic has a dark grey or black inner lining.
-First Order patch is centered on left bicep and is approximately 3" (7.62 cm) high 2 1/4" wide
-There is a subtle cuff seam line on both lower sleeves above the rank bands.
 
Jodphur Trousers, First Order General, Black

For 501st approval:
-Fabric is a light to medium weight suiting material exactly matching the tunic.
-Flared riding breeches have subtle, semi-stiff flares in the hip/thigh area, below the tunic and above the knee.
-Breeches are worn with tall, knee-high boots.
-Pockets and waist belts are acceptable, although are not visible with the tunic on.
-Stirrups may be attached to the leg bottoms to keep material tightly tucked into the boots
 
For level two certification (if applicable):
-There is a fold on the legs creased from back to front, directly below the jodphur flares, tucking tightly into the boots, over the knees.
 
 
General Boots, First Order General, Black

For 501st approval:
-Knee-high, black, lace-less, smooth non-textured, leather or leather-like material, with moderate to high-gloss shine.
    -Rubber rain boots or Wellies are not acceptable.
    -PVC or synthetic material is allowed as long as it gives the appearance of leather.
    -Original Trilogy English Riding Boots are acceptable for basic approval.
-There are no stretch panels, buckles, snap tabs, or decoration.
-Boot seams must closely match screen-used boots.
-Boots have conservative or no heels at all. Flat soles are most accurate.
-If zippers are present, they on the inner part of the boot shaft only.
-The top of the boots may be flat or Spanish Style, but not Cowboy or Super Hero (pointed at the front) style.
 
For level two certification (if applicable):
-Boots have a zipper on the inner shaft.
-Soles are flat, similar to FO TK and TI soles.
-Seams and design must match screen-used boots.
 
 
Gloves, First Order General, Black

For 501st approval:
-Gloves are constructed of a non-textured, black leather or leather-like material.
-Enclosed fingers.
-Gloves are gauntlet length, fitted, and worn underneath the sleeves.
-No buckles, straps, ect.
-Gloves may have seams similar to Original Trilogy officer gloves for basic approval. 
 
 
Belt, First Order General

For 501st approval:
-The belt is constructed from a black, non-textured leather or a leather-like material.
-Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable.
-Belt must fit snugly over the natural waist of the wearer.
-There are no loops on the belt.
-Sizing holes on wither side of the buckle are acceptable for basic approval.
-The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal-looking material.
-Buckle is free of decoration, greeblies or insignia.
-Buckle is rectangular, with sharp-angled edges, approximately 5 1/4" (13.3 cm) long & 2 1/2 high (6.35 cm).
 
For level two certification (if applicable):
-Belt is made of leather.
-There are no sizing holes
-Buckle has a slight horizontal curve.
 
General Rank Insignia, First Order 

For 501st approval:
-Worn on the left side of arm, above the wrist and below the elbow
-Rank consists of four white bands sewn down to the sleeve.
 
For level two certification (if applicable):
-Rank bands consist of two separate black bands with the white piping on the top and bottom edge of each.
 
Optional Accessories:
 
 
First Order Officer Great Coat, black
 
For 501st approval:
-Coat is long, black wool. It drapes past the knees, but above the ankles.
-It is fitted to the wearer.
-First Order patch and rank insignia appears on the left sleeve as they do on the tunic.
-First Order patch is centered on left bicep and is approximately 3" (7.62 cm) high 2 1/4" wide.
-The collar is long with a wide lapel. It must closely match the design in reference images.
-Sleeves are long, and without decoration, cuffs or buttons.
-Coat has epaulettes across the shoulder, from the collar to top of the arm seam seam. They are completely sewn down to the shoulders.
-The coat is open and does not close. It may be worn over the shoulders like a cloak.
 
For level two certification (if applicable):
-The coat has two long panels that fold back from under the armpit to the backside of the coat. They connect at a point lateral to the posterior.
-There is one vertical seam down the center of the back.
-There are two horizontal front pockets on both sides of closure, right below the waist.
-The coat has a smooth, black lining, matching the tunic's lining.
-There is a subtle cuff seam line on both lower sleeves above the rank bands.
 
Officer's Blaster, First Order

For 501st approval:
-Based on a replica Glock 19 repeating pistol, scratch-built with added greeblies, or a modified commercial replica is acceptable.
-Details to be painted black and silver per reference photos. 
 
 
Thanks for reading!
Dino
DS-75608

Niels Revers
 
30309
 
Agent TK
 
Dutch Garrison
 
 
Wondering if new images are needed for Executor status since all image can already be found here
 
http://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:ID_Agent_Kallus
 
Will supply images if needed ofcourse
 

Line:
ANH:
    6 BLUE (TOP), 3 RED / 3 AMBER    (GRAND MOFF: TARKIN)
    2 BLUE / 4 RED                             (ADMIRAL: MOTTI)
    6 RED                                          (GENERAL: TAGGE, MOLOCK)
    6 AMBER                                      (CAPTAIN)
    6 BLUE                                         (LIEUTENANT)
    4 AMBER / 2 RED                          (CHIEF: BAST)
ESB:
    6 RED (TOP), 6 BLUE                    (ADMIRAL OZZEL, PIETT)
    4 RED (TOP), 4 BLUE                    (GENERAL VEERS)
    3 RED (TOP), 3 BLUE                    (CAPTAIN NEEDA)
    2 RED (TOP), 2 BLUE                    (LIEUTENANT)
RotJ:
    3 RED (TOP), 3 BLUE                    (CAPTAIN)
R1:
    6 RED                                          (ADMIRAL)
    6 BLUE                                         (ADMIRAL)
    6 AMBER                                      (GENERAL ROMODI)
    6 RED                                          (GENERAL)
    3 BLUE / 2 RED                             (CAPTAIN)
    2 RED / 1 BLUE                             (LIEUTENANT)
    2 BLUE                                         (LIEUTENANT-JG)
REBELS:
    5 RED (TOP), 5 BLUE                     (BRUNSON'S HELMSMAN)
OTHER:
    6 BLUE (TOP), 3 RED / 3 AMBER                       (GRAND MOFF: TARKIN, TARKIN NOVEL; RANDD, LOST STARS/AFTERMATH: LIFE DEBT/AFTERMATH: EMPIRE'S END NOVELS; PANDION, AFTERMATH NOVEL; TOLRUCK)
    5 BLUE (TOP), 3 RED / 2 AMBER                       (MOFF: TARKIN, TARKIN NOVEL)
    3 BLUE / 3 AMBER (TOP), 3 BLUE / 3 RED         (GRAND GENERAL: TAGGE, DARTH VADER COMIC SERIES)
    5 RED (TOP), 5 BLUE                                       (VICE-ADMIRAL: SLOANE, KANAN COMIC SERIES)
LEGENDS:
 
Naturally its an early incarnation, but I thought I'd show my progress at this point.  Of course there will be photos of each character where possible along with a graphic of the rank.  Any input is greatly appreciated.

I'm of the same mind there.  My goal is to have as comprehensive a list as possible with examples, all known named officers, and graphics of the plaques.  As well as for it to be easily navigable for new Officers and easily updated as new information is discovered or new ranks introduced to us.  I'm honestly humbled by the daunting task I'm undertaking, but I'll not let the Empire down!

The Death Troopers will make an appearance.  They will be under Thrawn though.

It would be good to see Krennic in the show.  At the end of this season we will still have two more years until Rogue One.  Filoni said that he is toying with the idea of showing the Battle of Scariff from the perspective of the Rebels cast.

Richard LePalmiter was going to get one of those creamed colored uniforms to represent the "air force", but he couldn't fit into it, so he got another green one like Tagge. Richard was from Pittsburgh and he would come home to the Pittsburgh comicon in the late 90's when I first met him.  He was originally hired to play the imperial governor of Tatooine but that fell through with the changes to the script that  were ongoing.  So he ended up Motti on the Death Star.  

Richard was one of those North Americans that came over to England in the 60's and 70's to play people with American accents in British cinema.  We lost him way too soon.
 
Accents did represent where you came from.  A north american accent meant you came from a very rural far away area.  I liked how Edwards made sure that Krennic had a working class accent.  He was not accepted by the officer corp and that resentment played through in his role and Krennic's climb.  He was getting to the top by his ability, not by the virtue of his birth.

The Death Troopers will make an appearance.  They will be under Thrawn though.

It would be good to see Krennic in the show.  At the end of this season we will still have two more years until Rogue One.  Filoni said that he is toying with the idea of showing the Battle of Scariff from the perspective of the Rebels cast.

And most actually spoke with an English accent