PArmstr
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Posts posted by PArmstr
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7 minutes ago, charlyselo said:
What I'm trying to do here is to create two different CRLs, one for olive, one for black, but not a single one for both colors.
About the rank bars, what I understand is that we can use whatever rank for level 1, but for level 2 and 3 we need to use one of those seen in SOLO, not in other movies. That means for example my photos will be only valid for level 1, but not for level 2 because of the rank.
At least that's what I understood, but if you want we can allow any rank seen in any movie (ANH, ESB, RotJ, R1, SOLO) for levels 2 and 3 ...
I think we should only use the science officer rank bar and the ones seen in Solo for level 3. I am not sure what we should do for level 2. I think the Blue Ray of Solo will be out by the time I have completed my uniform due to the fact I will sew it myself. It will be easier to purchase black fabric, so I will probably just go with the black version and buy the rank bar that can be seen in Solo.
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I love where this is going. I hope we can get everyone on board with this CRL.
If I understand the CRL correctly I could use my ISB rank bar with three blue and three red tiles for this costume. That would either be an army colonel or a navy commodore if I follow the Glyn Dillon chart provided by buckrogersbarker. Does that mean I would have to make an olive version of the mess dress if I want to achieve level 2 or 3?
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2 hours ago, charlyselo said:
ID Imperial Officer: Staff Officer Mess Dress (Black)
ID Imperial Officer: Line Officer Mess Dress (Olive)
Sounds good. What about the sience officer then? We keep it as an special suit, or just combine it with Line Mess Dress?2I like the names of the two new CRLs.
That is a really good question. I think we should keep the science officer due to the fact that it is a specific Rogue One costume that is also mentioned in the RO VD. You need to have the white shirt cuffs and a specific rank bar for it.
I think we should use the science officer CRL as a template for the two Mess Dress CRLs and just remove the things we do not need. At the moment the Mess Dress uniforms are a specific costume in Solo but that might change in the future.
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39 minutes ago, BensID39999 said:
I like the term Undress uniform, or if we go British military, Mess Dress. I think we can leave the Science Officer be, and just make a separate CRL for 'Undress Uniform, All Services' to cover the black and olive uniforms and make the undershirt optional and open it up to any style single row rank bar.
Thats sounds like a great idea to me.
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I think I have found some more of these officers in another Youtube Clip with the title Solo: A Star Wars Story | Becoming Solo Featurette.
- buckrogersbarker and Wompet
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1 hour ago, BensID39999 said:
I saw Solo again a 4th time tonight and I looked for these variants. I can say without a doubt there is an officer in Olive uniform with straight leg pants and a 6 amber tile rank bar like Captain Khurgee ANH or as the more newly described Operations General. Instead of calling it a dress uniform, I would hazard to say, just like the Galen Erso flashback scene, that it is an off duty uniform. When I pushed for the science officer CRL, I had hoped that more evidence would come to light showing other types of officers in trousers, and just like the Imperial Infantry, this now seems to be a canon. Though I couldn't see them clearly, it follows that they would continue to use Chelsea boots.
So what do we do with this new information? On CRL's to date we have not hassled with denoting specific rank bars unless it's a character like Tarkin, especially level one submissions. Wear whatever bar you like! I could also encourage the powers that be to accept trousers versus boots and jodhpurs for any rank as a line officer 'off duty' variant. We must struggle to keep up with the deluge of new material, and options the detachment membership wants that can be taken directly from the films should always be on the table.
It is sad to think that an officer of the Empire has to wear some type of uniform even while off duty but I am OK with the name you came up with due to that fact that the wearers of that uniform seem to be off duty.
I agree that we should not make a specific rank bar necessary for level 1.
You can see a staff officer and a line officer with regular pants and probably Chelsea boots at the party in a Youtube Clip called Solo: A Star Wars Story | "Scoundrels" Featurette. I took some screen caps of the clip. Those are the guys I remember seeing the movie. The Staff officer seems to only have blue tiles on his rank bar. Unfortunately, I cannot say many tiles he has.
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9 hours ago, buckrogersbarker said:
No one is wearing medals or belt boxes or gloves. The tunic is the same. I think it is more of a casual wear uniform. Something for drinks after hours. Remember we did see them in ANH too on the Death Star. Sometimes with hats, sometimes without.
I think the term dress uniform fits pretty well for that type of uniform. The military usually has different uniforms for different duties and occasions. When I use the term dress uniform, I am thinking of a type of Service Dress uniform whereas you think of a Full Dress uniform or Dinner Dress uniform. In the Rogue One flashback scene Galen Erso and Krennic are at the apartment of the Erso family. Perhaps they had dinner together. The scene in Solo is a type of public meeting or party.
ANH is not a good example when it comes to uniforms. Due to budget restrictions, they had to use many different types of uniforms that Bermans could supply. You are referring to the hall walkers in ANH. That was not supposed to be a dress or casual uniform. It was supposed to be some type of service or working uniform. One of the hall walkers is standing behind Tarkin operating a control panel in the death star monitor room while wearing a Navy Trooper helmet and some huge headphones. I did some research on the hall walker in 2016. Here is the link. http://www.imperialofficer.com/forum/index.php?/topic/6313-anh-enlisted-death-star-personnel-in-olive-uniform/&tab=comments#comment-124746
- Hask, Wompet and buckrogersbarker
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9 minutes ago, Exaldear said:
Simply put, it looks like the straight pants/Chelsea boots is a dress uniform of sorts.
I agree. I have been thinking the same thing since I have seen those officers in the party scene in Solo.
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On 25.5.2018 at 9:02 PM, buckrogersbarker said:
I saw the black and green uniformed officers at the cocktail party wore straight pants and Chelsea boots. This is a variant uniform, they are not science officers
3 hours ago, buckrogersbarker said:You are confusing title and rank. He could be a science officer, his title. He could also wear the rank of a colonel as an operations officer in the imperial military.
At times we have had chiefs of the CIA that were 3 stars admirals and yet were called “directors”. The head of the V2 rocket program in WWII Germany Werner Von Braun was a civilian director. He also was a Sturmbannführer in the SS. The same is for Director Krennic. Krennic is the director of the advanced weapons group AND he holds the rank of Fleet admiral ( 6 Blue, 6 red).
And its not a theory. The screen writers, the costumer designers and the people in the story group publishing the books are all saying it. Go look.
What buckrogersbarker said makes sense. If he is correct, and it seems to be the case, then a rank bar is just a rank bar. It shows the position someone has in the hierarchy of imperial military. It has nothing to do with a title someone has or what job that person does. Galen Erso seems to be a scientist in the rank of operations major in the Army Operations, whatever that supposed to be, of the Empire during the flashback scene.
There are similar things in the real military. A nurse in the US Army can have the rank of a major and have the position of head nurse. A couple of years ago, I knew a guy, who was a major in the US Air Force. He had a degree in computer science but his occupation in the Air Force was flying a C-130 Hercules.
- Wompet, GDMorti, buckrogersbarker and 1 other
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I really enjoyed Solo. I have seen it twice so far. I liked Rogue One and Solo more than TFA and TLJ. For some reason I like the "A Star Wars Story"-Movies more than I like the Prequels or the Sequels of the Skywalker Saga. I also liked Rebels more than I liked "The Colone Wars". Perhaps its because R1, Solo and Rebels are closer to the OT than the others.
I think that Ron Howard and the cast did a great job. I do not mind that Han Solo and Lando Calrissian look and behave different than they did in the OT.
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2 hours ago, Hask said:
There are plans to tidy up, starting with the ISB, however it won't be 2 separate CRLs
Cleaning up the existing ISB CRL is better than nothing. Is there a reason the ISB CRL cannot be split up into two CRLs? I am having a difficult time understanding why it is better to clean up the mess by reworking the exciting one instead of making two new ones especially if Steven and I already did some work on that. Personally, I think having two ISB CRLs would make it easier to understand for newbies and people that do not speak English as a native language. I really do not want to be a pain in the neck; I just want to understand the reasoning behind the process. I have been a member of this Forum since 2014 and some things do not make sense to me.
11 hours ago, lantern2745 said:Oh I was picturing those headers as links themselves that open up to the CRL lists. I see now what you meant. I like it more now.
I like Exaldear's idea too.
- Exaldear, Tutanchseth and Steven
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7 hours ago, Exaldear said:
If the variant is there then someone must have made that part though. So those ones can be tidied up first.
I agree with you. Those are ones we should start with. The others should fallow as soon as costume for the new variations are made.
37 minutes ago, Hask said:I have planned to clean up the ISB last week but was unwell with bad Hay fever im going to do it soon
What are your plans with the ISB CRL? Can we help you in some way? I hope you get well soon.
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7 hours ago, jauntyharrison said:
Good heavens what a gordian Knot this is. In my head it sounds so simple to just collect everything with a non 451 style Black staff tunic into one place. Then it’s just a matter of seasoning with the right accessories. However, people have made a compelling case that it can get confusing which accessories go with what.
Still though, it feels that these are structurally just three costumes. ANH tunic, Non-ANH tunic W/short boots, Non-ANH tunic W/tall boots. Of the three, the latter continues to recieve new accessories through Rogue 1 and Solo (An presumably in Kenobi, and in Fett...)
I’m not going to pretend for a second that I know how the sausage gets made, but to a spectator it seems like adding accessories is easier than creating CRLs. And it seems like it would be expedient to leave the old ANH and Warrant (short boot) costumes alone, and just keep piling accessories on to the Black tunic (tall boot) costume as the anthology films keep adding them.
As a last note, I think a conversation about which names for these costumes feel right or feel wrong is a totally separate issue.
There are more versions of the black tunics then you think. There are at least four different versions of the black tunic. In ANH there is the Fahrenheit 451 tunic, which is worn with jodhpur trousers and riding boots. There is also the NY police tunic (actually dark blue wool), which is worn with the regular pants, gauntlets (adjustment strap) and jackboots (with trap and buckle). There is a black tunic that the Rogue One Navy Troopers wear that is very similar to the NY Police tunic, which seems to be made of black wool instead of dark blue wool. It is worn with Jackboots (no strap/buckle), gauntlets (no strap) and regular pants. Starting with ESB you have black tunics that are copies of the line officer tunic.
It might seem that adding optional items is easier than creating CRLs but you forget all the problems that can come of too complicated CRLs. The GMOs have to judge costumes and the costumers have to buy or make the costumes. Many members or future members do not speak English as a Native language. If a CRL has many optional items you also have to explain which combination is permitted and which are not. That makes CRL very long and difficult to follow. I think it is better to make more CRLs with less optional items than one or two CRLs with a ton of optional items that might become 20 pages long.
Every costume needs a name to distinguish it from another. If Lucas Film gives us some names via the Visual Guides and other sources why should we not use them?
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13 hours ago, Steven said:
If we can make this update, and I'm not so sure about it, we do it all in once. So there is no hurry, we can easily wait until we have visual reference for the straight pants and so on.
I am pretty sure I saw at least one Staff Officer with regular pants and Chelsea boots at the party but I was not able to see his rank. I agree that it might be a good idea to wait for better visual references. The DVD/Blue Ray should come out some time around Christmas.
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3 minutes ago, charlyselo said:
I think I notice also Navy Troopers without armors when watching the movie, so maybe we can have two CRLs for SOLO:
- SOLO Imperial Navy Trooper Dress uniform (or just obvious the 'Dress uniform')
- SOLO Imperial Fleet Trooper (the armored one)
I think we could just make one Solo Imperial Fleet Trooper CRL add the armor as an optional item. I remember seeing people with the helmets but I cannot recall if the had armor or not or just the tunic. I will try to keep an eye out for them tonight.
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3 minutes ago, charlyselo said:
Maybe we should wait to confirm the existence of Staff officers with straight pants in Solo. Or just update the CRL with what we know now, and update it again in a few months.
I think we can add the staff officer with straight pants and Chelsea boots as soon as enough people have confirmed seeing them in Solo I will be watching the movie again tonight. I will try to look for that uniform.
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1 minute ago, charlyselo said:
Yes, all the Navy Troopers that I refer are the Dress uniform version. So, just to resume if I don't misunderstand you, we will have:
- ANH Staff Officer (current)
- ESB/RotJ/R1/SOLO Staff Officer (updated)
- ANH Warrant Officer/Navy Trooper Dress uniform (new)
- ESB/RotJ Warrant Officer (updated)
- R1 Navy Trooper Dress uniform
- ESB/RotJ Navy Trooper Dress uniform
- SOLO Navy Trooper Dress uniform
Yes, that is what I was talking about. I just went back to the other thread and took a look at the photos again. We would have to change 7. Solo Navy Trooper Dress uniform to Solo Imperial Fleet Trooper. That is what they are called in the book.
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On 25.5.2018 at 9:30 AM, Steven said:
SOLO just had its premiere and as there are no Staff Officers seen very close on screen there is no necessity to add anything SOLO-special to this CRL draft. If anyone spotted something different please let us know in this thread.
Edit: thanks to the VD we now have the visual proof that Krennic style riding Boots with the strap were used.
That's why I would like to give this CRL proposal another try.
I hope we can finally make this a new CRL and bring more order and accuracy to our uniform standards.
Have a nice day!
I hope that we can finish this CRL soon.
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9 minutes ago, bobafett4ever said:
ANH is the off ball. Could update ANH 451s to include all the ANH one offs.
The other warrant officers can be combined with staff officer as the only difference was the jack boots, since we see straight pants with Staff Officer in Solo.
Again they all wear the same basic Black officer uniform, with a variation in straight leg or flairs. Boots are one of three options. Then accessories are mix and match depending on movie.
Again, who knows... Was just trying to think of how we could clean it up or help make it better.
No, we should not update the ANH 451 CRL to include all ANH officers. They have completely different uniforms. In ANH the officers with rank badges wore the Fahrenheit 451 tunics, riding boots and jodhpurs. The warrant officers and Navy troopers dress uniform ANH wore NY police tunics (dark blue wool), regular trousers, jackboots (with buckles) and gauntlets with straps. The Rogue One Navy Troopers Dress uniform wore a similar uniform as the Navy Trooper ANH but it is not the same. The tunic is black instead of blue, the jack boots does not have the buckle, the belt has grooves and the belt boxes are different, the gauntlets are different as well.
The regular imperial officer tunic in black was never worn with jackboots. The jackboots where only worn with the blue NY police tunic and the black Rogue One version of that tunic. It seems that in Han Solo the regular imperial officer tunic in black was worn with straight pants and Chelsea boots at the party similar to the Rogue One Science officer based on Galen Erso in the flashback scene of Rogue One but I am not sure about that.
In theory we could put all costumes with the black imperial officer tunic in one CRL and add a lot of options but then only the people that work on that CRL would understand it. We need more CRLs not less to make sure that the CRLs do not get too complicated. You should not need a master’s degree in Star Wars Imperial Officer Uniform to understand it. Please do not forget that many people in the 501st Legion are not native speakers of English.
16 minutes ago, charlyselo said:As you said in the other thread PArmstr, I don't think either that less CRLs is better.
I like your solution of new and updated CRLs. Maybe this:- ANH Staff Officer (current)
- Staff Officer (updated)
- ANH Warrant Officer (new)
- Warrant Officer (current)
- ANH Navy Trooper (new)
- ESB/RotJ Navy Trooper
- RO/SOLO Navy Trooper
And for each one of these we're gonna need a discussion, if not exists already. Just a propose
3. ANH Warrant Officer (new) and 5. ANH Navy Trooper (new) can be in the same CRL if you mean the Navy Trooper Dress uniform. The warrant officer is basicly a Navy Trooper Dress without the holster and the DH-17 and a black officer cap instead of the helmet. Every other component of the costume is completely the same.
The Rogue One Navy Trooper and the Solo Navy Trooper do not match. The Rogue One Navy Troopers are similar to the ones in ANH. I do not know what tunic the navy trooper in Solo wears but it is probably the regular black tunics that was used in ESB, ROTJ and R1.
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9 minutes ago, Steven said:
I would not combine the Staff/ Warrant/ Navy Trooper CRLs, it would make them far to complicated with to much options. But I'm a big fan of updating the specific CRLs to the latest information, which I already tried.
1 hour ago, bobafett4ever said:Hello. I posted this in another thread, but feel it may warrant it's own for discussion.
I know initially this will cause some folks discomfort, but I think, IMHO, in the end, the Staff Officer and Navy Trooper IN Dress need a complete revamp. Keeping 451 officer and Navy Trooper separate and as is.
This new CRL would combine two old ones, update and clean it up.
They can become 'Fleet Commanders,' or 'Fleet Troopers,' or something similar. Seen in RotJ, RO, Rebels, and Solo. Black uniform, boots with variations, optional helmet, optional Imperial Ground Crew chest plate, optional poncho, optional raincoat. Etc. It can be like the Imperial Gunner with variations. Or, if you don't want to do the variations, can just specify specific to which reference, i.e., helmet only on RO or Solo makeup, etc.
I think we'd kill at least 2 birds with one stone here. And this could really clean up a convoluted mess between the two currently.
The longer we push this off, the more of a mess it'll become. What do you think, for or against and why?
I would also not combine the CRLs of these costumes.
- The CRLs would get too complicated.
- These costumes are not as similar as some seem to think.
For incstance, the warrant officer ANH and the Navy Trooper in dress uniform used a NY police tunic, have nomal pants and jackboot. The Rogue One Navy trooper in dress uniform has a similar tunic and the rest is also very similar, they are also called navy troopers on page 122 of the Star Wars Rogue One - The Ultimate Visual Guide. The navy trooper dress uniforms in ESB and ROTJ where the regular imperial tunic in black. We could make a CRL each for
- IN dress uniform/warrant officer ANH/Rogue One
- IN dress uniform/warrant officer ESB/ROTJ
- staff officer Rogue/Han Solo.
I think that these uniforms are similar enough to be able to do that we should not put all black uniforms in one CRL.
Here are some links with research about the different costumes:
Rogue One Navy Troopers dress uniform
Differences navy trooper dress uniform ANH and ESB
Navy trooper dress uniform and warrant officer ANH
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I watched the movie in German movie theater on Wednesday. I saw the imperial officers at the party but cannot remember what rank they had. I did not see what pants or shues they wore. I hope to see the movie again tonight or next weekend. I will pay better attention to the details the next time I what it.
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59 minutes ago, Hask said:
As I said for now it stays as is, I did not say it won't change it may in the future, I think we are lucky its included for a costume that was never seen.
I do not think that we are lucky to have the R1 ISB uniform. There is no reason why we should not have it. It was in the film. It does not matter that it was not in the final version. The uniform is in the celebration reel, which is official promo material, and it is in the Visual Guide. Both come from Lucas Film itself.
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21 minutes ago, PArmstr said:
I think it should be optional due to the fact that we cannot see Inspector General Bozedem Jeems hands on page 147 of in the Star Wars Rogue One - The Unltimate Visual Guide and the only scene were we can see the gloves is only in the trailer or teaser and never made it into the movie.
I must correct myself. Inspector General Bozedem Jeems can not be seen in the trailers or teasers. He can only be seen in the Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - Celebration Reel on youtube. He there twice and he is wearing gloves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUb_zpdyDpU&index=16&list=PL148kCvXk8pDWYE9q9cNdux5JFmu80kN8
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14 minutes ago, Theblueguy808 said:
Should it be optional or, like Krennic, made as a requirement since the only time you see his hands he's wearing gloves?
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I think it should be optional due to the fact that we cannot see Inspector General Bozedem Jeems hands on page 147 of in the Star Wars Rogue One - The Unltimate Visual Guide and the only scene were we can see the gloves is only in the trailer or teaser and never made it into the movie.
Line/Staff Officer Service Dress, proposal.
in New CRLs
Posted · Edited by PArmstr
Changed a word.
I would prefer to keep the science officer CRL the way it is. It would be great if we could create a mess dress CRL for the black version and another one for the olive colored version but I will take any version we can get approved by the LMOs.