Paggeldiwwer

Some more impressions of our German Garrisons Weekend in Speyer:
 



 
Great to know that some of the people on the group-picture are around here on the IOC  Our friends from our neighbor-Garrisons in France and Luxemburg for example. I hope we meet more often and share our enthusiasm!

Some more impressions of our German Garrisons Weekend in Speyer:
 



 
Great to know that some of the people on the group-picture are around here on the IOC  Our friends from our neighbor-Garrisons in France and Luxemburg for example. I hope we meet more often and share our enthusiasm!

My first draft of an own Fahrenheit 451-CRL. The differences are espacially in the discription of the tunic and the belt.
Forgive my wording-capabilities on some things and alter them if you want  
 
Imperial Hat, black
For 501st approval:
Fabric is a medium weight suiting material matching the pants and tunic if applicable. Gabardine style weave is most accurate. Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6 mm) tall. Front and rear "flaps" overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6 mm) high. Front bill extends 3" down, decorated with 5, 6 or 7 concentric stitches. Imperial Code Disk is positioned in the center of the front vertical flap.  
For level two certification (if applicable):
Code Disk has a notch detail on the outermost disk. For level three certification (if applicable):
Code disk exactly matches screen-used prop.  
 
 
 
Tunic, Black
For 501st approval:
Fabric should be a medium weight suiting material exactly matching the pants and hat. Cavlary Twill weave is most accurate. Tunic is double-breasted with a left over right closure on at the right shoulder-seam. The back of the tunic replicates the front by the given look of the double breasted design of the front. Yoke closes up across the shoulder to the top shoulder seam. The standing collar has square corners and is about 1.6" (40.6 mm) tall and closes snugly There are code cylinder pockets on both outside panels of the jacket from about half way between the top and bottom on the arm hole. Sleeves are long, and without decoration, containing 2 seams, one along the bottom and one along the back. The rear seam opens at the cuffs at a length of about 3" (75mm) Tunic should be constructed with top-stitching (stitches visible on the exterior surface of fabric) 0,25" (6mm) from the outer edges of the double breast/double back, 1" (2,54mm) from the outer edge of the double breast/double back and directly underneath the edge of the codecylinder-pockets Hook and eye fasteners on the uniform should not be visible.  
For level two certification (if applicable):
There is a dart of about 4" (116 mm) in the top center of the yoke. The back of the tunics' replicated double-breast opens at both lower pleats. For level three certification (if applicable):
Tunic must be secured on the right side by snaps or buttons, not Velcro. There is no topstitching visible anywhere but at the noted points. a lining must be sewn in.  
 
 
 
Rank Bar
For 501st approval:
See the Imperial Rank Bar page for more information. Worn on the left side of the tunic over the heart. Rank consists of colored plastic tiles mounted on a metal bar The bar is 1" (25.4 mm) height. Length is determined by chosen rank Rank tile dimensions are 1/2" (12.7 mm)width x 3/4" (19 mm) height and about 1/8" (3.2 mm). Tiles are mounted with 1/4" (6.4 mm) spaces between them. Rank tiles are translucent. Color quantity and combinations are determined by rank, and are appropriate to uniform type. For example: No Grand Moffs wore black uniforms with hats. Grand Admiral rank matches Grand Admiral uniform... etc.)  
For level two certification (if applicable):
Rank bar consists of between two and six tiles. For level three certification (if applicable):
Belt box, code cylinder, and rank badge configuration is consistent with film canon officers. There are only Four choices of rank bar for ANH staff officers One row of four blue tiles. One row of four blue tiles and two amber tiles. One row of two red tiles. one row of three red tiles.  
 
 
 
Code Cylinders
For 501st approval:
Between 1 to 4 per costume may be worn. Modified: silver "chalk holder" tube with short clip and blue colored top. Rod style: machined aluminum rod with flaring disc detail at top Dosimeter style: True Dosimeter with correct clip and blue top. Alternate Style: Silver clip with no blue top.  
For level two certification (if applicable):
Only real or replica dosimeters are used. If only one is worn, it is on the left side.  
 
 
 
Belt
For 501st approval:
The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material. Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable. There are no loops on the belt. A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) from the buckle. The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer. The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material. The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners. Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center. Please refer to the Imperial Buckle reference page for information on accurate and inaccurate style buckles.  
For level two certification (if applicable):
Belt is made of leather. Snap is worn to the left of the wearer. Buckle is flat. For level three certification (if applicable):
ANH Staff Officers should have a belt with undyed edges.  
 
 
 
Jodhpur Trousers, black
For 501st approval:
Fabric is a medium weight suiting material exactly matching the tunic and hat. Gabardine style weave is most accurate. Flared riding breeches are canon. Breeches must be worn with boots. Pockets are acceptable, although they are not visible with the tunic on.  
 
 
 
Officer Boots
For 501st approval:
Knee-high, black, lace-less, smooth non-textured, leather or leather-like material. Rubber is not acceptable. PVC or synthetic material is allowed as long as it gives the appearance of leather. There are no stretch panels, buckles, snap tabs, or decoration. Boots have conservative heels. If zippers are present, they are hidden on the inner part of the boot shaft. Not visible from the front, side or back. The top of the boots may be flat or Spanish Style, but not Cowboy or Super Hero (pointed at the front) style.  
For level two certification (if applicable):
Boots do not have a zipper. For level three certification (if applicable):
Boots are made of leather. Not vinyl or PVC. Exact replicas of English riding (dress) boots or Equestrian boots.  

But the tunic is the main part of the whole costume. And since the pattern differs in many ways, another description of a tunic's pattern would overload the existing CRL.

Some more impressions of our German Garrisons Weekend in Speyer:
 



 
Great to know that some of the people on the group-picture are around here on the IOC  Our friends from our neighbor-Garrisons in France and Luxemburg for example. I hope we meet more often and share our enthusiasm!

You found yet another interesting Detail on the Rogue One tunics: the dart running down from the collar is a little longer than the horizontal line of the pockets edges. It's the same with Tarkin here:
 

 
And this is him in ANH: the dart ends with the horizontal line of the pocket-edges:
 

 
Thank you for pointing this out  

Looking at the picture of Krennic in the Coruscant, his cylinder pockets seem to be about 1/3 up the dart. Would that be about an inch difference on the Magnolia tunic?
 

Throwing in my own experience:
 
When I choosed to be (better "was chosen") Grand Moff Tarkin 2,5 years ago, I was happy to find Philos codecylinders. It took only few days to recieve them (inside Europe) and I liked them very much. Then I got into the details of my costume and found, that Tarkin only used the small hooks in the front, not the entire clip. But in those days the clips on Philos Dosis were fixed/welded and could not be used the way I wanted it. I found another vendor in Austria (smuggler run) who provided the clips that I was looking for. Since then I can wear them the way it is meant to be.
 
Luckily in Europe we have three sources of accurate stuff: Philo, Smuggler's Run and of course Klaus Windstosser and his "Fräßstüberl" (Cari likes this word). During the last three month our fellow Garrison- and IOC-member Christian Schießl offered a bunch of original blue topped dosimeters in many forums as well as on facebook. Got some for myself and they are great. 
 
It is or will always be a bit of luck to get the most accurate or original stuff. But it ain't impossible. Patience is needed though. 
 
For the entry-level modified chalk holder will do the job. And I agree with those who are calling for better visual guidance in the CRL that shows, how the acceptable options look like. At the moment it is just a bunch of different versions that are not discriped one by one. If we could make a clear discription for each possible version (even for L2/L3) it will make the life of the applicants as well as for the GML a lot easier.

Hi guys
 
Possibly the most off topic of all off topic threads! But I noticed that there were 501st generic facebook profile frames, and Rebel Legion ones and stuff. So I looked into it and there wasn't an IOC frame! aaaaand then I made one.
 
Should be able to find and apply it by searching ioc or imperial officer corp in the frame application bit!
 
<3

That's what I found on that request. All too white to really see the collar-dart. But what I could figure out was the codecylinder-pockets are hanging low towards the armpit. I'd prefer them to be somehow more horizontal. But maybe that's just how the uniform fits on their model.

 
 

I can only agree, the easier a CRL can be read, the better it can fulfill it´s purpose. So regarding the staff officer CRL i Support the idea of splitting it up in two.

Stated from a GML's view on a daily basis I can only admit that it is a lot easier to us having single CRL's with clear definitions of a single costume. That helps to axoid overloading the GWL-Forums with questions that occur due to the missing of a 100% clear wording. That has nothing to do with the IOC's CRL's especially - it is just a Thing that happens far to often when I read through the GWL-Forums.

One needs to unserstand it's history if he wishes to reproduce them. And most of the details have been saved throughout the ANH-reanimating-process. So I think we should be aware of all the details we can capture. Won't hurt anyway  

But the tunic is the main part of the whole costume. And since the pattern differs in many ways, another description of a tunic's pattern would overload the existing CRL.

As far as I checked through the screencaps from ANH there is no other tunic than the Fahrenheit 451.
 
Shall we do a separate CRL for it or will this end up beeing too much?
 
What is the FISD doing in a similar case? They have two (!) separate CRL's for the Stromtroopers in ANH (Stunt & Hero) even though they only differ in the helmet-desgin and the number of rivets that connect the Holster to the belt. The ESB-TK als has only minor differences to the one in ANH (frown ist black, Holster moved to the right side and uses Loops instead of rivets) but got his own CRL as well.
 
If one should state the Fahrenheit 451 is similar enough to leave it with one CRL for the staff officer I say: that is not correct.
 
The Fahrenheit 451-tunic is completely different from the imperial tunic. That's what makes it worth to get an own CRL for it.
 
What are those differences?
 
1. The collar Closes on the right shoulder instead of a center closure.
2. the double-breast has two visible seams at each side-edge.

3. the double-breast design continues on the back of the tunic which has the look of open pleats running from the shoulders down.


4. the cuffs are slit.

5. there is a visible seam just beneath the edge of the codecylinder-pocket-edge

6. the center of the skirt part in the back is slit on both sides.
 
The differences concerning the rest of the costume are the silver Clips of the code-cylinders, the flat belt buckle and the single rank-bar.

 
Here are some pictures from the movie "Fahrenheit 451":
 







 
What was obviously altered by John Mollo was the left side of the double breast. They closed the opened pleat and sewed it closer onto the left side of the front. The codecylinder-pockets have already been there from the beginning.
 
Thats what I saw in the "starwarsscreencaps" and on the Internet so far. Let's collect some more visual prove her.
 

Following the screencaps and next to the original Uniform they have altered the collar. The one in ANH is higher than the one in Fahrenheit 451.

Just saw James´ post in the other thread. It seems as if ALL uniforms in BF 2 have the Center seam. 

I just want to chime in on the constructive side here:
 
Let's make two seperate CRL's: one for the ANH-Fahrenheit 451-Staff-Officer, who is allowed to wear only a single bar rank-badge, another CRL for the common staff officer with the uniform cut in the "imperial pattern" where the applicant himself may choose wheather he wants to be a ROTJ without a rankbar or a Rogue One-Officer with a certain rankbar ... or some officer from comic books with a double rank bar.
 
This way makes up the chance to offer both - accuracy to the ANH-movie on one side, freedom to choose a different officer with alternate uniform and other references and modifications on the other side. That should be possible to do and would help to end any further discussion.

I just want to chime in on the constructive side here:
 
Let's make two seperate CRL's: one for the ANH-Fahrenheit 451-Staff-Officer, who is allowed to wear only a single bar rank-badge, another CRL for the common staff officer with the uniform cut in the "imperial pattern" where the applicant himself may choose wheather he wants to be a ROTJ without a rankbar or a Rogue One-Officer with a certain rankbar ... or some officer from comic books with a double rank bar.
 
This way makes up the chance to offer both - accuracy to the ANH-movie on one side, freedom to choose a different officer with alternate uniform and other references and modifications on the other side. That should be possible to do and would help to end any further discussion.

If you are expanding this beyond rank bars and want to go into uniforms too, let's treat this like militaries have treated uniforms down through the ages, the same historical precedent that John Mollo, the original costume designer for ANH to Gly Dillion, the costume designer for Rogue One used to create these uniforms.  They are both alive and accessible.  You can talk to them at any time to get their ideas and what they were going for, what was made, how it was made and for why.

Ranks are variable, ALL of them.
Accouterments like code cylinders and belt boxes are variable.  
Other accessories are variable depending on the weather and the job at hand like trench coats and ponchos.
This variability should be there for level 1 requirements.
We should not stifle the entry level requirements for new members.
We should not restrict the creativity that allows new talented members to make new uniforms from new source material.  Because those talents might be used to help everyone at some point down the road.
 
We must acknowledge also that the animation models are primarily for rendering of the graphics, not for the making of the costume in real life.  It should be permitted that a member be able to make the costume for the "real world" or the "animated world" as they choose.  For example, the Rebels series imperial officers have a single seam down the back of their jackets.  That is for ease of rendoring the character.    The creator should be able to make either a princess seam or a single seam.  It makes no sense that how they make the costume be dictated to them by people that don't sew, can't read or make patterns, don't watch the source material and have general contempt for the character and source material in the first place.  That has been a factor in the past.... and it has run people off.  There will be animated Star Wars series and video games every year for the rest of our lives and we must recognize this and be able to help new creators while maintaining our standards.   It will happen one way or another and there will be more demand for it.

I have no problem with trying to look like a specific character for level 2 or level 3, but it has no place in level 1.  

I do not look like any face character, but I can make a pretty damn good imperial officer just being who I do look like.
 
 

Oof! Went for some dinner and came back to a bunch of posts!
 
If we limit a very popular and widely known costume in this fashion via rank bar, when content outside of the 3 OT movies exists, it just doesn't seem to have much in the way of grounds to do so.
 
Legends Thrawn exists, and remains, despite being "non canon" and never appearing in the OT movies.
Ysanne Isard exists as a popular character in the comics, and while there is debate over her rank bars and the style/cut of her pants, she never appears either and yet I see more and more Ysanne builds popping up as time goes on. Not a sniff of her in the OT movies.
 
It's an extremely blinkered and strange view to tie down a detail like this, on the grounds of "OT only", and yet entire character CRL's exist for non OT, or non moviecanon characters. At least I think so anyway!
 
Like, we don't even need to use "logical extrapolation" as reasoning behind double bar rank plaques on black uniforms. They exist in both the videogames and the comics. If the "three references" litmus test applies, pretty sure we've got that covered here?
 
And sure if someone wanted to specifically make an OT Staff Officer, they are perfectly within their rights to limit themselves to a single bar plaque!

You´re not the only one who´s wondering Morti. I stumbled over this Change as i approved a staff officer and neither back than now now it makes sense to me because of the reasons Robert und James mentioned.
 
I have the feeling that since we got a new canon with all it´s ressources for new costumes, we´re limiting ourselves more and more.

The issue is we can't restrict it to OT.  As Bob said, OT only had the 451 costume with rank bars - and we have never bothered to build that CRL, so the current Staff Officer isn't even ANH - it's either R1 or comics/games/EU.

For example, in BF2 coming out now:

 
Black(ish, but it's supposed to be black) with double stacked rank bars.

The change was made sometime this year - I know because one of my GMLs asked m as IOC Advisor why that was changed, and I didn't even know it was.  It ws after Celebration if memory serves me, but I can't say that the change wasn't earlier.

If we want to build a 451 CRL and restrict the badges to only those seen in ANH, cool.  But this?  This is more than a hodgepodge mishmash, and was changed without notice.  I would suggest until this is worked out the original text from last year be restored to it.

how and why did it change to what it is this spring?  Who made those decisions?  Where was the discussion?
 
I literally have a chart with every single permutation of imperial officer rank and I have noted the ones that come from canon sources, movies, comics, games, books, figures, animation.  I can back up anything I wear with reference photos.

Why is this even an issue at level 1?
Why are some people allowed to wear ranks only seen in the comics and others are told they cannot wear ranks seen in the same comics?
I won't name people, but this is not equitable.  

The original CRL prior to this spring brought more consistency than what is currently in place today.

Ultimately it comes down to the original generic line and staff officer CRL's being an amalgamation of BOTH of the following:
 
-- Generic CRL meant to cover all source (Movie, game, eu, etc) references for staff and line officers, so that 30 different CRL's based upon provenance aren't required --- AND --- 
-- CRL only based on movie source (canon vs non canon and varying peoples changing definition thereof)
 
It isn't a smooth mixture, and one that happened (with the best of intentions) over time. 
 
In this specific instance, if one takes into account all of the EU/Legends/Movie/Game/ etc material and say that those references are OK, then double-bar black officers are OK, too.  If, however, you only look at the OT movies and require screen accuracy of those, then double-bar black officer would not be OK.  
 
The solution is not to patchwork things. That is, sure, one could attempt to address the internal conflict within the CRL itself by a quick edit and hand-waving.  It does not, however, help create a methodology behind CRL's for the IOC to be able to move forward on.  That is something I will be opening up a discussion on soonish ... as I am mutli-tasking at work at present.