bobafett4ever
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Posts posted by bobafett4ever
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And should you choose to go the R1 ISB route, and go to CosplaySky (which is what most do due to the price), might I suggest that you pay extra and get it to your exact dimensions (I believe it's +$24), and also get the black deluxe and pay an extra +$20, and have them change the color of the tunic from black to white. That is because the deluxe will have the modesty panel, correct seams, etc.
Hope that helps (and yes, I have all 3, the R1 ISB, Staff, and Line Officer, all from CosplaySky - Deluxe, Fitted). I also have their regular ANH ISB, but it's not something I'd recommend.
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14 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:
I know optional hats for Line Officers has been brought up many times before.
While there are plenty of example of them without, there's more examples of them with. Every Officer in ESB and ROTJ has them and there's many in ANH and R1 that do.
I don't think we should be trying to change that CRL (yet), I think getting this one up first is a higher priority.
Respectfully, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.
Maybe this is for another time and topic, but in a way it does affect this because we are saying we see folks without hats in Solo, and want that to be reflected in the CRL.
But you are saying even though we see folks without hats, we see more of them with therefore everyone must have one.
I feel like at that point, we've moved from what is fact / shown in a movie, which is the purest 'canon' there is, and now we're adding personal opinion, which can be dangerous.
In summary, we see a ton of people in ANH that when made, didn't have names. In fact, most probably didn't get a name until the late 90's when Decipher made them up for Lore in their card game. Possibly West End Games names some as well for their table top games. So most of these people were no name people seen without hats (ISB or Line Officer). Now they've been given names and stories, and we say well because they have a name, only that specific person can fit that mold (no hat). Well, give it 20 more years and everyone in Solo will have a name and background. I just think it has to be black and white - it's seen on screen therefore it is what it is. I'm not saying I care one way or the other, just that we have to make a 'standard' and stick with it whether we like the outcome or not. In this case - it should be if it's on screen, a costume can be done like it. [This will bleed into other CRLs as well - we can't 'assume' how it should be because our assumption shouldn't matter. We have to go by what is seen. If we can't see something, then we can look to other materials for help, whether other media, people, etc].
Sorry, this turned out longer than I expected it too. And please understand I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just trying to show both sides.
- charlyselo and PArmstr
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3 hours ago, PArmstr said:
I think we should go by what we see on screen.
This ^
What's seen on screen should trump everything, even if only seen once for a brief instance. Then we can go to VDs, costume designers, then non-canon material (video games [are are those canon - I never remember anymore], etc).
Remember the conference room scene from ANH. No one wore hats. Hats should have been optional from day 1 for any named Line Officer. I'm pretty sure the older, bald officer with 6 Amber badges in R1 didn't wear a hat either. I forget his name offhand.
Maybe when CRLs are cleaned up, this could be updated. Although I know I'm digressing.
As for a Staff Officer, I haven't seen one that I am aware of yet, clearly, that was without a hat. I'm trying to think in Rebels if one was seen, but I don't think so... even at the academy.
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20 minutes ago, Exaldear said:
Initially I did propose five
High command
Fleet command/regular officers
Security/intelligence
Fleet trooper/navy trooper
Crewmen
That should cover everything.
Yep, could work. I'm OK either way. We now know that fleet troopers are just a female only brigade for Corellia and basically, Navy Troopers are security... so they may wrap into the Security and Intelligence. Not sure we need to sub-divide the officers since we'll pull some out for the security and intelligence.
So again, I'm not opposed to your suggestion, but for the sake of keeping 3, if that is needed, then maybe:
Officers
Security & Intellegence
Civilians, Crew & Recruits
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19 minutes ago, GDMorti said:
Possibly, for that example, but I hope you can see what I'm getting at? I'm not picking holes in the idea! Just maybe an "other" category OR the scope to add an additional.. whether that would be a possibility on the table following a reshuffle... should the need arise? I know we can't continually fuss around with this sort of thing forever and ever, but it'd be good to get "yes we could look at adding a new category if the need arose in future" just for safety's sake?
I agree. I think we were looking at 3 categories for now because that's what we have currently... but hopefully adding a 4th is possible should the need arise.
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On 6/6/2018 at 1:10 PM, charlyselo said:
Hehe, I'm working on a Navy Trooper, but I will go for a R1 version. Maybe in a future I take your ANH alternative.
BTW, off-topic, did you know in which film appears the NT Dress uniform, regular officer jacket and jodhpurs trousers? ESB? Yesterday I took a quick view of RotJ and I only could appreciate Navy Troopers with jumpsuits...
Yes, what we are currently calling the Navy Trooper In Dress is from ESB. RotJ used the same in some scenes, just had possibly a code cylinder in the right pocket IIRC.
The Navy Trooper from R1, is also from Solo, based on the NT in ANH and they all use the 451 style tunics.
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I'm in agreement. I like Service Dress. Hats optional, but are not the preference.
As for one note with rank, Mr. Crossman stated that Service Dress was previously used in ANH (and G. Erso in R1)... so not just Solo.
QuoteOPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
- Rank chosen must be referenced from film canon officers (SOLO).
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Hello again. Some more great news from one of the costume designers, David Crossman. I asked him specifically about this type of outfit, and he stated the below...
QuoteYes its a semi formal dress - so could be referred to as Service Dress or Walking out Dress.
No reason why a hat cou[ld] n[o]t be worn in the correct environment.
The uniforms that a lot of people call Olive Green are actually field grey (I hate them being called olive green) as they are the same fabric as a lot of German officers uniforms.
The wearing of trousers is not entirely new as its a practice established by some personnel in ANH which is why we did it for Galen Erso in Rogue One. As per A New Hope we supply our officers with a single cuff collarless shirt to be worn under the tunic. This would apply to all officer ranks. They are merely Imperial officers.
I confirmed this the case for ISB, Staff, and Line. All can wear this 'semi formal dress' and the hat is optional and they can ALL wear the single cuff collarless shirt. And, rank doesn't matter.
I hope this helps. I am just flabbergasted that he actually responds to me. I've corresponded with him 3 times now (and he's responded quickly) and I told him I wouldn't bombard him anymore with questions... but it's so hard not to, lol. He seems very friendly and open to the questions. It was funny because I emailed someone else and they just happened to know Mr. Crossman and put me in touch with him. I didn't think he'd even respond once, but he has and it's pretty cool.For fun, the rest of the conversation was about fleet troopers (which is what well call all the Navy Troopers it seems).
QuoteTo try and simplify, our fleet troopers are are based on a fireman's stock tunic and trousers which is what was used on ANH. It is quite possible that they were also used on 451 as they were rental stock from Berman's and Nathan's. The field grey and the black officers were based on WW1 German officers tunics and are the same cut. I know this first hand, as I used to work at Bermans and we would often send Peter Cushing's breeches and tunic out on various WW1 productions. (Which seems like a crazy thought now..)
- Exaldear, DarthFunk83 and Prida
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Just now, Exaldear said:
Hats would not be optional. And ISB would not be included as they are not seen in this uniform variant.
It could be argued that Krennic flashback should have straight pants though.
The straight leg/Chelsea boots 'variant' is already a part of the ISB CRL, lol
It'd just be cleaning it up to match the Line / Staff CRLs however we incorporate the mess dress / semi formal concept.
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2 minutes ago, charlyselo said:
I don't understand why we should take hats as optional, as it's never seen used on screen (for Staff and Line).
For Staff (black) no, not optional. I apologize... I typed too fast. I meant for Line and ISB.
And both ISB and Staff were seen without hats. Multiple times in ANH (I'm can't screen capture at work), and I believe we saw additional line officer(s) in R1 without hats.Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I know 100% we saw both Staff and ISB in at least ANH without hats.
All-in-all though, I have the hats so it doesn't bother me to leave as a hat is mandatory in all/every scenario. I just feel that since we do seem some, seems to fit in canon that it's not mandatory.
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8 minutes ago, bjsavage7 said:
I'm thinking IF this were to be a thing, it would be more of a "Semi Formal" configuration than full on Mess Dress.
I agree with Semi Formal (mess dress just sounds odd to me).
And I also think there should be one for each Officer, Line, Staff, and ISB. I know, some folks don't like new CRLs for everything, but I think in this case it's justifiable.
Hats optional. For ISB and Line, dress shirts underneath optional.Ranks wouldn't matter at level 1. At Level 3 it's have to match exactly someone seen on screen.
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48 minutes ago, BensID39999 said:
As I said in the other thread, in the theater I saw that one of the line officers definitely had 6 amber tiles. You catch a good glimpse of him at the very beginning of the sequence. The Science Officer CRL should be left alone since It was a specific uniform combination for R1 only seen in the flashback sequence. I believe a single new crl for Mess Dress all services would be easier to pursue than 2 new crls. So no hats or beltboxes, and from what we can tell level 3 would reflect single rank bars of 6 tiles of the same color. For visualization purposes, I can throw together both uniforms together for pictures, I just only have dosimeters with brass clips, so I couldn't go to L3.
Can you elaborate, for me, what you mean by the Science Officer was a specific uniform in R1 and why it would be it's own CRL?
You could be correct, I'm not stating I disagree. I just feel that it's the mess uniform for the following reason.
If we look at the straight leg pants, we know that this may be an casual uniform. If we look at no hat, many times do we see officers not wearing a hat, so that is mute. If we look at the rank, everyone has their rank, so we can't base it strictly because of rank. If we look at the white dress shirt underneath, we know that others, specifically Tarkin and an ISB agent have worn them, so that may be acceptable across the board, at least for Line Offciers and ISB agents.
Hence, IMHO, there is nothing 'unique' to the Science Officer. Any casual / mess dress Line Officer could wear it. Be it with a hat or not, with the white dress shirt or not, with any rank.
At the very least, for level 1 and possibly 2. And at level 3, if you want to specifically match someone on screen, you can with regards to if they had the white dress shirt, a hat, and the color rank bar.
I'd dare to same the same for the Staff Officer, except possibly they can't wear the white dress shirt underneath and possibly must still have the hat?
Just my observation.
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Just a thought, but if we are all agreeing on the fact that we don't want too many sub-categories, but that the officers are too much at the moment, maybe something like:
Officers: All the named officers and generic Staff, Line, Warrant, etc
Security & Intelligence: All the Navy Troopers, future Fleet troopers, ISB, Kallus, & Intelligence folks like Isard
Crewman & Recruits (or Midshipman): All the current crew, cadets, CRLs like Galen Erso, and future non-officer folks
I couldn't think of a good term for non-officer, maybe a recruit or a midshipman? I'm looking at my military folks here for a good synonym.
That way we'd keep 3 categories, and something like a naming of a category such as Security and Intelligence doesn't limit it to just Imperial, F.O., or Republic.
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2 hours ago, DarthFunk83 said:
I think keeping it seperate would be better, but I'm biased
Right now, the Science officer does require the dress shirt underneath, which is obvious in both the movie and VD. It's unclear if the ones in Solo wear dress shirts underneath. Science officer and Mess Dress are also very different roles, so I think keeping them seperate would be better. My two cents
I have great respect for you so I'll preface my comments that of course this is not against you or the CRL you helped create in any way!!
I feel like the science Officer is the CRL for the mess dress.
How many line officer's have we seen without a hat. Many, across multiple movies.
How many characters have we seen with a white shirt underneath? At least 3 (Tarkin, ISB, Sci Officer).
I'm all for a new CRL if it makes sense, but here, I feel like there really isn't a difference between Sci Off and Mess-dress.
Heck, you could rename the Science Officer to Mess Dress.
The white shirt underneath should be an option for any Line Officer or ISB. The bottom line is it's canon and seen at least 3 times.
For mess dress at level one, rank doesn't matter. This is why I think you can just add a Note (just like what was done to ISB) to the already existing CRLs stating you can wear straight legs and Chelsea boots with any ISB (already done), Line, or staff officer.
I know I'm in the minority, and I'm ok with that. I just don't think you need an entirely new CRL when you can add a note to an existing one stating everything is the exact same but this and this for a varient.
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On 5/25/2018 at 3:02 PM, buckrogersbarker said:
I saw the black and green uniformed officers at the cocktail party wore straight pants and Chelsea boots. This is a variant uniform, they are not science officers
So, after thinking about this, I propose an update to the Line Officer, Staff Officer, Science Officer, and ISB.
Since we've now seen each of these Officer's with the straight legs and Chelsea boots, I think it appropriate to just update each CRL with a Note. That note would state that for the said uniform, an off-duty varient would be the same but with the straight leg trousers and Chelsea boots.
Basically, this would eliminate the science Officer as it becomes irrelevant (and not to hurt feeling or say it's not relevant, it just becomes one with the Line Officer varient).
We already sort of have this on ISB. We can just update it so it's consistent across all 3 CRLs.
Thoughts?
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19 hours ago, Hask said:
ISB updated
Just a quick thought... Shouldn't there be a comment too that for the hat, for RO, the greeble wouldn't have the notch.
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22 minutes ago, Exaldear said:
For the most part Imperial officers that we have seen are naval. The Imperial navy is the empires largest branch as well.
But, honestly, I just assumed navy for it.
And as I stated earlier, I would love to reclaim/share General Veers and the Mud trooper officers and create a Ground Command as well. Future goals if any of this takes off.
I agree with getting Veers back eventually. I guess I can see why they got it initially because
1. they needed CRLs, and
2. it was a one off so they could claim that in the armor he was the AT-AT Commander.
But now they have expanded thier CRLs, and we've now also seen the armor used by Thrawn, Governor Pryce, and similar armor in Solo and Battlefront II. So it's just officer's with battle armor.
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So the structure could be:
IOC
Republic
Sub cats
Empire
Sub cats
First Order
Sub cats
The Sub categories could be what was listed above... High command, Crew, etc.
If something came later on out of those three periods, then we could add a fourth main category? Old Republic, or whatever it may be.
And maybe it's time to update the IOC (since we aren't just Imperial anymore) to the Star Wars Officer's Corps, or The 501st Officer's Corps.
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10 hours ago, Exaldear said:
I say that yes, split FO and Imperial. Both will grow as new material is released (resistance is coming).
Main categories would be for splitting things into the correct organisational groupings. While some might not be the classic officer, even the Fleet Troppers are security officers. Hell, anyone with a tiled badge is an officer.
As for outcomes. It may go nowhere, and if it looks that way then the command staff will stick a pin in it (sooner would be best). Until then, I don't mind throwing dead around until something sticks.
As for groupings.
High command: These would be your Grand Moff's, your Governors, Grand Admirals
Fleet command: Line and staff officer, plus the 451 and the science officer (maybe Imperial dress uniform name change)
Security officers: ISB, Directors of intelligence Isard etc
Fleet troopers: the naval staff
Crew: for the scanners etc
FO (for now it's one list, but that will change): The officers of the first order.
That's good.
Quickly reading, I agree on both
Empire and F.O. should be broken out.
Also, I like your categories. Good job.
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So I've been thinking about this over the past few hours.
Maybe we need to relook at this from the top down?
Starting with, what's the goal of the IOC?
In the IOC, we have Officers, Crew, and Navy Troopers. Hence, already the IOC is only 1/3 officers, lol. Doesn't seem to make sense.
Maybe we need to begin by recategorizing, like you said (and forgive me as I'm just brainstorming), and begin with what categories do we want in the IOC?
It could be something like
1.) Command Staff (Not Imperial unless we wanted to break up Imperial and First Order). For the sake of typing less on my cell, I'll leave that topic for later. This would be all the named officers, generic officers... all, officers.
2.) Support Staff. This might be all the current "crew," & cadets.
3.) Security. Could be things like the current NTs, Agent Kallus, ISB, etc.?
Or (and forgive me as I'm not military so don't know the technical terms) maybe just have two main branches to begin with. Officers and an "everyone not an officer" category.
Possibly, once the main categories we're agreed upon, then sub categories.
But, before this just goes on and on, maybe we need to decide two questions first?
Do we separate Empire and F.O.?
What will be the next step of our main categories.
I guess my last thought would be, realistically, what's the odds we can make a change like this. I don't want to spend hours on something only to find out this isn't something that is going to change.
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I'm all for fixing and cleaning up CRLs.
I started another post elsewhere about combining some stuff not necessarily because it made the most sense, but because we just need movement.
I love the IOC and if I can be of any assistance please let me know.
I'm in the arena that every CRL should be based on the base uniform. Example, ISB ANH and RO should be two separate CRLs. If the base uniform is used across multiple media, but only accessories are different, then that's when you can use variants under one CRL.
And we should update the names while we're at it, like Line and Staff officer could be renamed to match source books.
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ANH is the off ball. Could update ANH 451s to include all the ANH one offs.
The other warrant officers can be combined with staff officer as the only difference was the jack boots, since we see straight pants with Staff Officer in Solo.
Again they all wear the same basic Black officer uniform, with a variation in straight leg or flairs. Boots are one of three options. Then accessories are mix and match depending on movie.
Again, who knows... Was just trying to think of how we could clean it up or help make it better.
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Good points I can appreciate.
I just feel like the Navy Trooper IN Dress was an option because they were misunderstood. But the only difference is that they had a helmet, and now that we've seen officer's with the helmet in Solo and RO, and in battle in Solo, they may have been unranked officers the whole time.
We know they didn't use ranks in ESB and RotJ, and would make sense in RotJ that they were an officer and those under him (in the bunker) we're the grunts in flightsuits. Flightsuits would remain the NTs, but the 'officers' would be these new fleet troopers or whatever we call them. Just a thought.
Line/Staff Officer Service Dress, proposal.
in New CRLs
Posted
Yep - makes perfect sense. Seems we have a lot of great ideas, but no power to do anything with them, lol