bobafett4ever

IMHO, first, General Veers is not just an AT-AT Commander.  He's an armored officer (prepared for combat) that is on the AT-AT because those were the vehicles granted to him for his assault.  He is clearly giving troop orders.  You could easily have inserted him into any vehicle, and/or inserted any officer into that position.  If he had sub-officers with him, I believe they would have worn the same battle ready armor as well.  I think having him as a CRL as AT-AT Commander is incorrect, and should be renamed as Armored Imperial Line Officer (or something like that), and moved from ACD to IOC.  I'm sure folks will disagree and that is ok.  I just don't see it any other way.
 
The ACD should be for Imperial/F.O. pilots/drivers (whatever name you prefer) navigating a vehicle.  All their CRLs are just that, except the random AT-AT Commander.  It just doesn't make sense.  And granted, I understand at one time they only had like 4 CRLS, and IOC had 25+, so it was nice to share.  But now they've received more, and the random officer in armor (AT-AT Commander) should be updated and correctly categorized (back to IOC).
 
The IOC should have any officer, armored or not.  I'm not a part of the ACD, but I'd go out on a limb to say that I don't believe the "spirit" of the ACD is to have folks in armor.  And, if that is the case, then then why our officer and no other troops wearing armor?
 
We would, in theory, have Veers, Tarkin, Thrawn, Pryce, and any other generic Line Officer or generic governor or grand admiral whom needed to wear armor for combat readiness.
 
Looking even to see if there is anything to trade to them, I don't think currently.  Probably could throw one or two to JRS, but that's another discussion.

IMHO, first, General Veers is not just an AT-AT Commander.  He's an armored officer (prepared for combat) that is on the AT-AT because those were the vehicles granted to him for his assault.  He is clearly giving troop orders.  You could easily have inserted him into any vehicle, and/or inserted any officer into that position.  If he had sub-officers with him, I believe they would have worn the same battle ready armor as well.  I think having him as a CRL as AT-AT Commander is incorrect, and should be renamed as Armored Imperial Line Officer (or something like that), and moved from ACD to IOC.  I'm sure folks will disagree and that is ok.  I just don't see it any other way.
 
The ACD should be for Imperial/F.O. pilots/drivers (whatever name you prefer) navigating a vehicle.  All their CRLs are just that, except the random AT-AT Commander.  It just doesn't make sense.  And granted, I understand at one time they only had like 4 CRLS, and IOC had 25+, so it was nice to share.  But now they've received more, and the random officer in armor (AT-AT Commander) should be updated and correctly categorized (back to IOC).
 
The IOC should have any officer, armored or not.  I'm not a part of the ACD, but I'd go out on a limb to say that I don't believe the "spirit" of the ACD is to have folks in armor.  And, if that is the case, then then why our officer and no other troops wearing armor?
 
We would, in theory, have Veers, Tarkin, Thrawn, Pryce, and any other generic Line Officer or generic governor or grand admiral whom needed to wear armor for combat readiness.
 
Looking even to see if there is anything to trade to them, I don't think currently.  Probably could throw one or two to JRS, but that's another discussion.

Patricia,
You've been doing a great job and a lot of work.  I'm trying to piggyback off of some of your posts to help get confirmation so you can get some of these updates or new CRLs to light.
I confirmed with David Crossman (and I think we already knew this but it's always great to have confirmation with someone that works on these items) that the Navy Troopers in R1 and Solo are wearing the same tunic as seen in ANH.  He still calls them the fireman's tunic, but at least we know it IS different from the Staff Officers.  So only the Navy Troopers in ESB and RotJ are wearing the black Staff Officer's uniform.
I hope we can get these cleaned up - it's so hard trying to explain to new recruits.

Because I knew you had worked to create this, and I had an ANH ISB agent (that I figured wasn't really screen accurate) and a R1 ISB Agent, I thought I'd see if David Crossman could chime in.  
 
I asked ... "In ANH, the ISB agents seen on the Death Star, are they wearing a modified Russian Imperial Army Officer’s Summer Tunic?  It’s very hard to see exactly the seams and cuts since the lighting was wonky in 1977 and even these characters were mostly in the background.  We’re assuming they’re either a cream color, or maybe off-white and just bad lighting."
 
His response was... "I don’t know the exact answer ... I’m afraid, but thats probably a correct assumption."
 
So I did try.
 
I would love to see the ANH and R1 split out as they clearly are a different tunic.  Only makes sense not to lump them together as it's not just a difference in the accessories.

Patricia,
You've been doing a great job and a lot of work.  I'm trying to piggyback off of some of your posts to help get confirmation so you can get some of these updates or new CRLs to light.
I confirmed with David Crossman (and I think we already knew this but it's always great to have confirmation with someone that works on these items) that the Navy Troopers in R1 and Solo are wearing the same tunic as seen in ANH.  He still calls them the fireman's tunic, but at least we know it IS different from the Staff Officers.  So only the Navy Troopers in ESB and RotJ are wearing the black Staff Officer's uniform.
I hope we can get these cleaned up - it's so hard trying to explain to new recruits.

Thank you for reminding us of the reasons why we have a generic Science Officer CRL instead of a Galen Erso Science Officer CRL. Even though I was part of that discussion I completely forgot about it. I agree with most of what you wrote, the only thing that I would suggest is to make the white shirt cuff an optional item instead of a mandatory one. We cannot see white shirt cuffs in the screencaps of the party in SOLO.

There is a lot of great information and debate going on here. Thank you folks, to everyone, for keeping it civil!
I think that with decent images available this could be a simple set of modifications to an existing CRL. The Science Officer was created generic for a reason, it is not a Galen Erso face character for a reason. We assumed it was a form of dress that others in the wide range of the Imperial Military would have. We keep the shirt, open it up to any single rank bar, and keep the hat off. Basically we should be able to modify the title to Service Dress, add a black (staff) version, and have a nice, compact CRL that could have a VERY positive impact for IOC Recruitment. I have come to the conclusion that this is by far the swiftest way to get this canon uniform approved.

So, if I message the detachment staff and said that a few of us propose a new layout and cleanup of the crls with  the three listed methods, people would be OK with that?
 
If so. Then step 2 would be a list of crls to be cleaned up (big list).
 
If you want one revamped can you just add if it is wording, split, update. If one is being worked on ie navy/fleet trooper, then perhaps a link as well.

I agree with Chris, CosplaySky is a good vendor to start if you don't have the budget for a uniform made by a tailor. I also started with a Grand Admiral from CosplaySky, but DO NOT buy their Grand Admiral uniform! Buy a Deluxe Version uniform and add the "colour change" option so that they make the uniform out of white fabric.
 
If you want to use the Grand Admirals tunic for the R1 ISB as well I recommend to also buy a normal Staff Officer Deluxe Uniform in black, then you have 3 uniforms. The Grand Admiral, a Staff Officer and (combining the white tunic from the one and the black pants from the other) the R1 ISB Officer. And always order a custom made uniform, it's worth the money. Also don't buy the Hat from CosplaySky it's not correct, just buy some black fabric in a fabric store and let the hat be made by a tailor.
 
Good luck!

Good catch to bring Admiral Gorin up, and you are right, I also never saw a Staff Officer without a hat. But it would be interesting, if we can really make the hat optional for the Line Officer CRL.
 

I'm with Chris here, we should only reflect on the CRL what we can see on screen.

I agree with bobafett4ever and charlyselo that the CRL should reflect what we see on screen. Due to that line officers and ISBs should be able to wear a hat or go without it. The partygoers in Solo and the Science officer in R1 are never seen with a hat so it should not be optional. As for the hall walkers in ANH, they are only seen with hats or IN helmets.

If the current Line/ISB CRL can be changed and updated, great.
I wouldn't hold my breath. In 5 years I've seen the hats vs. not hats debate come up more times then I can remember. As noted previously, obviously nothing happened otherwise the topic wouldn't be coming back again. None of us are the CO or XO of this detachment so it's up to them if they want to make this change (if this was a debate about Gunners, then I could actually do something LOL)
 
Personally, I'd rather see the Service Dress become a new CRL.

Respectfully, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.
 
Maybe this is for another time and topic, but in a way it does affect this because we are saying we see folks without hats in Solo, and want that to be reflected in the CRL.
 
But you are saying even though we see folks without hats, we see more of them with therefore everyone must have one.
 
I feel like at that point, we've moved from what is fact / shown in a movie, which is the purest 'canon' there is, and now we're adding personal opinion, which can be dangerous.
 
In summary, we see a ton of people in ANH that when made, didn't have names.  In fact, most probably didn't get a name until the late 90's when Decipher made them up for Lore in their card game.  Possibly West End Games names some as well for their table top games.  So most of these people were no name people seen without hats (ISB or Line Officer).  Now they've been given names and stories, and we say well because they have a name, only that specific person can fit that mold (no hat).  Well, give it 20 more years and everyone in Solo will have a name and background.  I just think it has to be black and white - it's seen on screen therefore it is what it is.  I'm not saying I care one way or the other, just that we have to make a 'standard' and stick with it whether we like the outcome or not.  In this case - it should be if it's on screen, a costume can be done like it.  [This will bleed into other CRLs as well - we can't 'assume' how it should be because our assumption shouldn't matter.  We have to go by what is seen.  If we can't see something, then we can look to other materials for help, whether other media, people, etc].
 
Sorry, this turned out longer than I expected it too.  And please understand I'm not saying I'm right.  I'm just trying to show both sides.

Respectfully, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.
 
Maybe this is for another time and topic, but in a way it does affect this because we are saying we see folks without hats in Solo, and want that to be reflected in the CRL.
 
But you are saying even though we see folks without hats, we see more of them with therefore everyone must have one.
 
I feel like at that point, we've moved from what is fact / shown in a movie, which is the purest 'canon' there is, and now we're adding personal opinion, which can be dangerous.
 
In summary, we see a ton of people in ANH that when made, didn't have names.  In fact, most probably didn't get a name until the late 90's when Decipher made them up for Lore in their card game.  Possibly West End Games names some as well for their table top games.  So most of these people were no name people seen without hats (ISB or Line Officer).  Now they've been given names and stories, and we say well because they have a name, only that specific person can fit that mold (no hat).  Well, give it 20 more years and everyone in Solo will have a name and background.  I just think it has to be black and white - it's seen on screen therefore it is what it is.  I'm not saying I care one way or the other, just that we have to make a 'standard' and stick with it whether we like the outcome or not.  In this case - it should be if it's on screen, a costume can be done like it.  [This will bleed into other CRLs as well - we can't 'assume' how it should be because our assumption shouldn't matter.  We have to go by what is seen.  If we can't see something, then we can look to other materials for help, whether other media, people, etc].
 
Sorry, this turned out longer than I expected it too.  And please understand I'm not saying I'm right.  I'm just trying to show both sides.

I do not think that we will get this CRL approved by the LMOs before we have good references from the Blue Ray. So we might as well take care of more issues while we are at it. If the hat has come up many times before then it was not taken care of the first time around or it would not come up again. Some would say that all the guys without hats are named face characters and only those can go without the hats. Many named officer do not have their own CRL. As far as I know, the guys in Solo are not named character. We need to set some sort of standard concerning hats or this will come up again and again.

I think it should be doable if we have enough references to prove that line officers did not wear hats all the time. In ANH we have all guys that were in the conference. In Rogue One, we have Grand Moff Tarkin, General Romodi and Admiral Gorin. If are not just talking about line officer we could also include director Krennic and Galen Erso. In Solo, we have the guys at the party. In rebels, we have quite a few officers that do not have hats on. For instance Grand Moff Tarkin, Colonel Yularen, Governor Pryce, Admiral Thrawn and Alton Kastle, the broadcaster on HoloNet News.

Another named character that was in the conference scene in ANH and did not wear a hat at the time was Colonel Yularen. If I remember correctly he also does not wear a hat in Rebels. If I am not mistaken the guy that commended the star destroyer that gets another one pushed in his by a hammerhead corvette in Rogue One also did not wear a hat. I think we should make hats for line officers and ISB ANH optional when we clean up the CRLs. We have enough proof that they are not worn all the time. Unfortunately, I cannot remember ever seeing a staff officer without his hat.
 

R1 and ANH have many (more in ANH obviously) hatless officers.

General Hurst Romodi, he is also seen in ANH

Hmmm ... cigarette maybe? 

I am quite sure that Mr. Crossman was talking about the hall walkers in ANH. They were the only people that wore "Feldgrau" uniforms with regular pants and Chelsea boots. When I saw Galen Erso in the flashback scene for the first time I thought that he was modeled after the hall walkers. The hall walkers wore a hat but Galen Erso and the guys in Solo did not. Due to that, I am OK with having the hat as an optional item. 

As I said on a previous post, I don't think we should add something to a CRL if we don't have a visual proof. If someone find any staff or line officer from ANH wearing regular pants, I'll update the proposal.

About R1, that depends if we are going to keep Science Officer as a separate CRL or not.

I really don't have an opinion but find the debates like this fascinating. Just proves how dedicated we all are as a group. Amazing. 

I've always thought there was a rod-style cylinder there. Just can't quite make it out.