Dimentex

My first costume was a Staff Officer - and it was what people don’t like to hear a lot, but was very true in my case: an easy and inexpensive way to join the Legion.

My second was Director Krennic - and it was a grown up version of my love for Vader as a child. The very first R1 trailer other members of my garrison were facing over the shore troopers or the death troopers, and I was in the back going “who the #^%*# is THAT guy? He’s awesome!” And this began my almost year long crusade to get the costume made and the CRL made.

I’m currently only Officers - though I have a Biker Scout and Vader planned. But I had a similar reaction to the FOSB as I did over Krennic - maybe it’s the white and black. Lol.


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Evening everyone!

As the build thread for this particular costume here on the IOC is wrapping up, I think it's time we resurrect the CRL discussion. I've been Kris' armourer over on his UKG WIP thread and have done a ridiculous level of research into the costume to make sure I could give informed and adequate advice and assistance. That in  mind, I'd like to make the following proposal on the CRL's text.

This text takes into account several things:
- Kris' original CRL text proposed in the beginning of this thread.
- A large amount of research undertaken by myself, of which I am happy to provide details and references of should any part of the text need proving, elaborating upon, or rewording. I've made several suggestions towards reasonable (imo) Level 2/3 standards but accept that things are moved around by LMO's as part of their formatting and overseeing of the CRL process.
- The fact that I strongly and firmly believe that the Battlefront 2 First Order uniform should be a sole, singular CRL.

This would make the costume available to those who wish to make a generic, to those who wish to portray male or female BF2 FO officers, and to those specifically wanting to portray Hask. It is additionally worth noting that Battlefront 2 (the game) could at any point start to offer players the ability to customise their multiplayer "generic" FO officer further. A "generic" male body type may be made available. It's possible that they fully remodel another male body however my money is on them using Hask's, as it already exists. This would mean that both "male" and "female" versions of the uniform would exist. Yes the female model used as the generic multiplayer at present has differences to Hask, however there are two differences, and they are extremely minor. One of them is a fitting issue, regarding the location of the princess seams on the front of the tunic (you see the same differences between male and female First Order officers in TLJ). It's already come up in this thread previously, that Hask himself could easily be an appearance configuration for this CRL, which would then immediately open the costume up to all men, women, -and- those who particularly want to portray Hask.

Being as this has been handed over several times in this thread as "an LMO decision" I'd like to invite our LMO Liason to weigh in! @Hux

Without further ado, the text (I'm sorry it's mostly lumped to the left, I can't figure out how to copy it in and remove that without losing all my formatting!):

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Battlefront 2 - First Order Uniform
  Code Cylinders, First Order
For 501st approval:
Four (4) code cylinders, two on each side of the tunic
Cylinders are smooth tubes, with a lip at the top and an indented bottom
Cylinders are 85-90mm (approx 3.5 inches) long
There is a metal clip attached to the top, extending approx one third of the way down the cylinder
Both cylinders and clips are silver in color
For level two certification (if applicable):
Real (with modifications) or Replica Russian Dosimeters are used
For level three certification (if applicable):
Dosimeter clips are designed and bent in a manner that matches in-game references
Dosimeter tubes are of adequate thickness, as per in-game references
Officer Boots, First Order, Black
For 501st approval:
Knee-high, black, lace-less, smooth non-textured, leather or leather-like material, with moderate to high-gloss shine
Rubber rain boots or wellington boots are not acceptable
PVC or synthetic material is allowed as long as it gives the appearance of leather
There are no stretch panels, buckles, snap tabs, or decoration
Boot seams must closely match screen-used boots
Boots have conservative or no heels at all. Flat soles are most accurate
If zippers are present, they appear on the inner part of the boot shaft only
The toe of the boot is rounded, not in a square, rounded, or pointed style
The top of the boots are flat style, not Spanish, Cowboy, or Superhero
For level two certification (if applicable):
Boots have a zipper on the inner shaft
Soles are flat, similar to FO TK and TI soles
Seams and design must match those of in-game boots
Belt, First Order
For 501st approval:
  Belt strap is constructed from a plain, black, non-textured leather or a leather-like material
A buckle approximately 4.5inches x 2inches is acceptable
The belt strap is the same width/height as the buckle
Belt strap length must fit snugly over the natural waist of the wearer
There are no loops on the belt strap
The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal-looking material
Buckle is free of decoration, greeblies or insignia
Buckle is rectangular, with sharp-angled edges
For level two certification (if applicable):
Belt is made of leather
Buckle is made of a brushed metal such as aluminium
There are no sizing holes
Buckle has a slight horizontal curve, matching the curve of the belt strap when worn

Gloves, First Order, Black
For 501st approval:
Gloves are constructed of a non-textured, black leather or leather-like material
Enclosed fingers
Gloves are gauntlet length, fitted, and worn underneath the sleeves
No buckles, straps, ect
Gloves are plain on the back of the palm with no visible stitching or details
 
For level two certification (if applicable):
Gloves are leather
Rank Insignia, First Order
For 501st approval:
Worn on the left sleeve only, positioned just above the cuff seam line
Rank Insignia consists of either:
- A single plain black band with two thin white bands on the outer edges, and is fully attached to the sleeve
 
- Two plain black bands bisected by a straight seam, with white bands on the top edge of the upper band, and the bottom edge of the lower band. Rank insignia is fully attached to the sleeve
The thin white bands can be white piping or white embroidery
Insignia is invisibly stitched down to the sleeve in full, or adhered securely using iron-on patch adhesive. The bar should not appear loose
For level two certification (if applicable):
The top and bottom white bands on the rank insignia are machine embroidered
The seam for the rank band matches exactly with the seam of the sleeve
  First Order Officer Hat
For 501st approval:
The hat's brim is a black leather, or leather-like material protruding from the front bottom of the dome. It is slightly curved in shape and does not obscure the wearer's eyes
The dome fits snugly on the head and cocks slightly back like a baseball cap
It is fitted to the head and does not cover the ears
There is a tall flap which runs around the back of the hat, snugly fitting around the dome at the back and at both sides
The flap piece is not higher than the dome of the hat, and does not overly flex outward It is effectively vertical in respect to the rest of the hat, and when viewed from the side, it's front edges are tilted slightly back at an angle
The First Order emblem is centered in the front of the hat's dome. It is black and white/silver
The hat is made of a sturdy, grey suiting fabric exactly matching the pants and tunic, with suitable interfacing or buckram as to give it the correct shape and stiffness
The dome has a subtly curved seam separating the front panel from rest of the hat, with a similar seam on the back section of the dome, with one vertical seam running down the dome's back
For level two certification (if applicable):
First Order insignia is centered in the front of the hat's dome. It is approx 1 1/2" wide & 1 3/4" tall
Hat features topstitching on either side of seams on the side and back panels of the hat as well as on the panels at the seam where they meet the dome, but not upon the dome itself. The front dome features top-stitching only at the lower edge where it meets the brim
The hat’s brim is leather. Its finish matches that seen in reference images
Tunic, First Order Officer
For 501st approval:
Fabric is a medium weight, smooth, grey suiting material exactly matching the pants
Tunic is fitted
The front closure may use wide hook and eye closures
Sleeves are long, and without decoration, folded cuffs or buttons. There are cuff seam lines on both lower sleeves below the rank band and a visible seam line separates the sleeve from the straight cuff portion, which is approximately 4.5 - 5.5”
First Order Commander rank insignia is fully sewn down on the left arm only
The collar is snugly fitting, classic-style, and has a visible closure panel across the front of the neck.  Closure panel may attach to the side of the neck by Velcro, hook and eye, or any closure that does not interfere with the look of the collar
There are princess seams on the front and the back, the rear seams running from shoulder blades to bottom hem
The chest princess seams turn at a sharp 90-degree angle at the bottom of the code cylinder panels, running back toward the side seam and finishing 3-4” below the armpit; The 90-degree angle of this seam is the closest point to the opening at the front of the tunic, and is around 2-2.5” from the center opening
There are two code-cylinder loops on either side of the chest and each loop is around 65mm (2.5 inches) long. The code cylinder loops can either:
- Fit within the chest seams described above, as per in-game reference. (Suggested for male officers.)
- Fit outside of the chest seams described above, as per in-game reference. (Suggested for female officers.)
There are four seams on the front of the tunic below the belt. Two either side of the belt buckle
There is no no vertical seam down the center of the back
The tunic does not have pockets
There is a single arm seam, beginning at the rear princess seam on the back, and finishing at the wrist. The seam runs through the cuff
The tunic does not feature epaulettes, nor a First Order insignia patch
There is a deep vent at the rear of the tunic
Tunic may have a waist seam, hidden at all times beneath the belt when worn. This waist seam will allow for much easier placement of accurate front seams below the belt, and an accurate vent at the rear of the tunic below the belt.
For level two certification (if applicable):
Tunic has a suitable amount of gathered material at the rear (lower back, belt level) and sleeves to create the same visual appearance as in-game references Jodphur Trousers, First Order Officer
For 501st approval:
Fabric is a medium weight grey suiting material exactly matching the tunic
Flared riding breeches have subtle, semi-stiff flares in the hip/thigh area, below the tunic and above the knee
Pockets and waist belts are acceptable, although are not visible with the tunic on
Stirrups may be attached to the leg bottoms to keep material tightly tucked into the boots
There is a fold on the legs creased from back to front, directly below the jodphur flares, tucking tightly into the boots, over the knees
For level two certification (if applicable):
Trousers have a suitable amount of gathered material at the thigh (front and rear) to create the same visual appearance as in-game references Holster
Black in color and constructed from leather or leather like material
The holster is made from same material as the belt
Holster is constructed from a black leather/leather like material which hangs beneath the belt. There are no visible attachments to the rear of the belt, however a small silver buckle may be used to attach the holster beneath the main rectangular belt buckle at the front
There are no visible snaps, loops or clasps attaching the holster to the belt, outside of the silver attachment mentioned above
The holster begins low enough to extend several inches past the hem of the tunic
Holster is worn on the right-hand side of the belt
For level two certification (if applicable):
Holster is made of black leather
Holster is made from the same black leather as the belt
The silver clip behind and below the belt buckle must be present
Blaster
Accurate RK-3 blaster pistol, matching reference images from Battlefront 2
If 3D printed, concerted efforts are made to remove all visible 3D printer ridges and striations
For level two certification (if applicable):
Blaster has been appropriately and accurately weathered to match Hask’s in-game blaster model
Blaster has been painted and weathered so as to give the appearance of being made of metal. Alternatively, blaster is made of metal and has been suitably painted and weathered
Commander Hask Appearance/Configuration:
For 501st approval:
Hair is grey, combed back at the sides and top. Hair is neatly cut short in a military style
Dark coloured/grey stubble is present however facial hair should not be of beard length
A long, jagged scar runs from the center of the chin, up the left side of the face, narrowly missing the left corner of the mouth, finishing with puckered scar tissue on the  cheek
 
For level two certification (if applicable):
Hair is visibly greying.(remove if grey hair is basic level) Stubble also appears to be naturally greying, “salt and pepper” style Eyebrows are of similar colour and shape to in-game references Suitable stage makeup techniques and tools are utilized to create a believable facial scar which matches in-game references

I’ve been playing Battlefront 2 every day since it came out.  This past month they are rolling out updates and new skins for even the regular troopers. Size aside for gender, I can see the first order officer being a generic character for men and women with face characters being level 3 just like line and staff officers for the empire.  
 
That would be in line with what we already do 

I'm pretty sure @Paggeldiwwer summed it up pretty well on an earlier post in the thread. If we do a CRL for every named character in a uniform, it starts getting out of control. I think unless we get some extreme circumstances it'll be how all iterations of a new uniform should probably go. Uniforms are called "Uniform" for a reason.

My first costume was a Staff Officer - and it was what people don’t like to hear a lot, but was very true in my case: an easy and inexpensive way to join the Legion.

My second was Director Krennic - and it was a grown up version of my love for Vader as a child. The very first R1 trailer other members of my garrison were facing over the shore troopers or the death troopers, and I was in the back going “who the #^%*# is THAT guy? He’s awesome!” And this began my almost year long crusade to get the costume made and the CRL made.

I’m currently only Officers - though I have a Biker Scout and Vader planned. But I had a similar reaction to the FOSB as I did over Krennic - maybe it’s the white and black. Lol.


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My first costume was a Staff Officer - and it was what people don’t like to hear a lot, but was very true in my case: an easy and inexpensive way to join the Legion.

My second was Director Krennic - and it was a grown up version of my love for Vader as a child. The very first R1 trailer other members of my garrison were facing over the shore troopers or the death troopers, and I was in the back going “who the #^%*# is THAT guy? He’s awesome!” And this began my almost year long crusade to get the costume made and the CRL made.

I’m currently only Officers - though I have a Biker Scout and Vader planned. But I had a similar reaction to the FOSB as I did over Krennic - maybe it’s the white and black. Lol.


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VD is canon though -so while I understand this, if we go that route then anything not on screen (Comics for example) is out as well.

Scale is needed yes - but I haven’t sat down and watched the deleted scenes yet and I think that’s where they are.


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Veers to ACD made sense.  From a pure military point of view, ACD (Armored CAVALRY Detachment - emphasis on the second word) Veers was commanding the Empire's "Cavalry" - AT-AT and AT-ST walkers.

Thrawn, Price and Tarkin are not commanding Cavalry.  They are effectively Generals on the field.  And a General is a commanding OFFICER.
 
Tarkin is an Officer if he's in armor for field work or bunny slippers because he doesn't like the feel of his boots.  Sorry, but I'll ride and die on that hill, "feelings" be damned.

Hi there, I'd like to make these requested changes:
 
Tunic II, Red
For 501st approval:

• Tunic II, replaces Tunic, listed above.
• Similar to the Tunic, with the following differences.
• Standing collar, open, no modesty panel.
• Front opening lies hidden beneath a bib or flap.
• Bib/flap is closed at one side with snap buttons.
• Bib/flap lower section hangs loose, and is roughly 4 cm longer than  
the rest of the Tunic II.
• No code cylinder pockets.
• No parting seams in front.
• (2) Darts point up from the waist seam, hidden under the bib/flap.
 
Based on her portrait from the New Essential Guide to Characters

 
I added a front opening under the flap/bib part to make the jacket wearable. This seemed the most suble way to me to get an opening in without altering much of the design.
 

 
For more pics, please visit this gallery  https://www.facebook.com/pg/dreiraben/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1545441548857516
 
 

Just in case you think he's fibbing -  http://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:TI_181st_dress_uniform
 
Please can we stop trying to get all elitist at Level 1?  Even Kris and Cari said it's good, albeit for different reasons, but still.

I want to address something I keep seeing brought up - "it's more expensive to upgrade later" - And?

We allow Pleather boots that have zippers.  The cost difference between those and real English Riding boots that are fit to your calves is several hundred dollars USD - I imagine it's even more in some other places.  Yet no one is suggesting we eliminate all boots other than real English Riding Boots because it's "more expensive to upgrade later."
 
While I appreciate that many people want to go for L2/L3, everyone ELSE must appreciate that there is a good portion of the 501st that simply wants a costume - in our case for officers, the most common one I hear is "something I can sit in."

IMHO, the rule at L1 should be "at 15-20 feet can the average person tell the difference?" - with the Chalk holders, if done correctly per the CRL, no, they cannot.  So what exactly is the big deal?

We all do, in some ways. Most people like Pablo and the story group are VERY accessible - both on Twitter, and though mutual friends in our own legion. The Rogue One costume group seems to love answering our questions - it’s one of the ways we realized the Krennic gloves and boots were not just off the shelf items.

Plus the plethora of games, comics (both the old Marvel/Dark Horse that are now Legends, as well as the current Marvel that is cannon), cartoons, etc. The fact we’re even DISCUSSING trying to exclude items that are cannon, whether or not certain people want them to be, is... well, atrocious.

It’s time to stop pretending we’re blissfully unaware of anything outside of the OT when it comes to rank bars and accept all sources.


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That would be my point. I know of one guy who bought some original ones here in the states but that was a one off - until we have several consistant vendors I do not agree with removing lower standards


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Sorry Kris but what we do is cosplay.  We exist in the costuming community just like any other group or costumer does, there's nothing special about us that makes the word cosplay not apply.  When Legion members get upset about this word being used I never understand it.  Our costumes are better than the average con-goer but that doesn't make the word not apply.  If anything our units that emphasize in character behavior are actually cosplaying more than the rest of us.

To be honest this attitude that we are somehow special is why we have the bad rep in the rest of the costuming world that we do (along with unwelcoming behavior earlier in our history and in some places even today).  It turns away recruits and breeds antagonistic rival groups.  But you're right, that's a debate for another time (and one that's been going on ever since the term cosplay came about).

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As far as the ranks go, this is excellent.  More ranks and better understanding of what the actual term is for each rank is nice.  I can now get rid of some of the various charts I've saved once the updates are made.  Maybe one day the dream of having a complete and comprehensive chart of the whole rank structure confirmed can actually be a reality.

 

Not sure yet.  This is why I want all the references for "black uniformed officer without a rankbar".  Even the comics.  Once known, can then properly categorize.  We won't be renaming Warrant Officer CRL.
 
Black uniformed officers with a rankbar do exist outside of the movies and the Imperial Staff officer CRL should reflect that once updated.

Here you go ma'am.


 

 

 

 
There's a bunch of good quality ones from ROTJ.  I don't think we see them anywhere else in movies - I DO believe they're in the comics, though I don't have access to those atm.

Third photo clearly shows that.

Here you go ma'am.


 

 

 

 
There's a bunch of good quality ones from ROTJ.  I don't think we see them anywhere else in movies - I DO believe they're in the comics, though I don't have access to those atm.

Veers to ACD made sense.  From a pure military point of view, ACD (Armored CAVALRY Detachment - emphasis on the second word) Veers was commanding the Empire's "Cavalry" - AT-AT and AT-ST walkers.

Thrawn, Price and Tarkin are not commanding Cavalry.  They are effectively Generals on the field.  And a General is a commanding OFFICER.
 
Tarkin is an Officer if he's in armor for field work or bunny slippers because he doesn't like the feel of his boots.  Sorry, but I'll ride and die on that hill, "feelings" be damned.

Veers to ACD made sense.  From a pure military point of view, ACD (Armored CAVALRY Detachment - emphasis on the second word) Veers was commanding the Empire's "Cavalry" - AT-AT and AT-ST walkers.

Thrawn, Price and Tarkin are not commanding Cavalry.  They are effectively Generals on the field.  And a General is a commanding OFFICER.
 
Tarkin is an Officer if he's in armor for field work or bunny slippers because he doesn't like the feel of his boots.  Sorry, but I'll ride and die on that hill, "feelings" be damned.

Veers to ACD made sense.  From a pure military point of view, ACD (Armored CAVALRY Detachment - emphasis on the second word) Veers was commanding the Empire's "Cavalry" - AT-AT and AT-ST walkers.

Thrawn, Price and Tarkin are not commanding Cavalry.  They are effectively Generals on the field.  And a General is a commanding OFFICER.
 
Tarkin is an Officer if he's in armor for field work or bunny slippers because he doesn't like the feel of his boots.  Sorry, but I'll ride and die on that hill, "feelings" be damned.

Veers to ACD made sense.  From a pure military point of view, ACD (Armored CAVALRY Detachment - emphasis on the second word) Veers was commanding the Empire's "Cavalry" - AT-AT and AT-ST walkers.

Thrawn, Price and Tarkin are not commanding Cavalry.  They are effectively Generals on the field.  And a General is a commanding OFFICER.
 
Tarkin is an Officer if he's in armor for field work or bunny slippers because he doesn't like the feel of his boots.  Sorry, but I'll ride and die on that hill, "feelings" be damned.

Thats not entirely true. JRS almost exclusively uses XWing style code cylinders, not dosimeter style. The only CRL that does is the 181st Dress Uniform, and I just checked and they still allow chalk holders. 

I'm not able to go searching to see, but if they're at the bottom of the dart and not the middle, yes, they are too low.

There are a large number of components within Star Wars costuming which are going to require a costumer seeking out someone with a specific skill set, getting put on waiting lists, and shelling out a large amount of money to get "that exact piece they need". If a chalk holder is a really good stand-in, looking the part for not a lot of money, and is able to be brought up to scratch with some modifications that any novice to making stuff can do themselves, I'm for keeping it in. I think everyone who has upgraded to real or replica has done so happily and with no regrets that they spent the $3 or so on their chalk holders initially?
 
I think at this point we're arguing the toss as somewhere in here it was confirmed they'd be staying in for the foreseeable? But yeah.