Dimentex

Lip makeup wording we can readjust.
 
The main aim of that line is/was to steer folks away from what is seen more often than I would like ... and that is what looks like dark blue lipstick.  Might just reword that line to simply say that ... Blue lipstick should not be used.  Will ponder.
 
Having done colored makeup before, I know that a thinner layer of the same thing I am using on my face on my lips produces that fleshy grey pink undertone under the color that you see in the Thrawn animation.  So I know it is attainable.  Where to place that and how to word, we will discuss before publishing.
 
I will be sending this up the chain to start the publishing process tomorrow.
 
IOC will be taking submissions for the images needing replacement after.

To me, Thrawn's eyebrows in Rebels is the exact same color as his hair. Id make sense from an animation point of view, as itd be easier for them to make it all the same rather than specifically changing the eyebrows to black and the rest of his hair to blue-black. The picture below shows the eyebrows as blue-black as stated in the new CRL. 
 

 
But I agree with the lips. They're a different tone than the rest of his skin. 

This is a massive improvement on both clarity and accuracy, thank you for your hard work. All of my issues with the CRL have been addressed and added to it/resolved, and now I'm a very happy Thrawn. (and my costume still fits the regs, lol)

Krennic updates are still in progress / in review.  
 
And not the subject of this thread

General Rule of Thumb across all CRL's is:  While blasters are optional due to varying local laws and regulations that may or may not be present, if the character is always seen with blaster and holster, then at least holster must be present (even without blaster).  If the character is seen without blaster and holster at least once in reference, then both become optional.
 
Whilst my mind's eye may have filled in a blaster/holster where one may not have been in the episodes, I do believe he is always drawn with a holster/blaster combo, so we will be requiring the holster at minimum. 
 
If a screengrab can be provided where it is not present, then holster will get shifted down to optional.

Awesome work.  I think you took a good CRL and made it excellent.

I'm still not a fan of a holster and no gun, but that's my personal opinion - I haven't watched Rebels all the way though so I can't judge if he had the holster without the gun.

Allrighty then.  Hi!  One of six LMO's here.  I'm Cari.
 
This has got to have been one of the most difficult CRL's I've worked on.  Less technically difficult and far more emotionally difficult.  The character is so well loved, so highly invested in, and so entrenched into our Star Wars culture from such a variety of media.  As an LMO, I and the rest of the LMO team want  to do justice to the costumer, the source, the character itself.  In trying so very hard to not disappoint and upset anyone, by not wishing to go too fast OR too slow ... mistakes were made and we're left with a whole heap of upset.  My boss, Brager, took a mea culpa, but I rightfully am taking one also.  The IOC is one of my assigned detachments and I am just as responsible.  
 
Now.  I've taken a very long and exhausting think about this costume and the CRL.  I have discovered a few things and come to the conclusion of a few things.  The first is that this particular costume is fraught with the subtleties of perception.  What I mean by that is:  the character itself has been represented for so long in such a myriad of ways way before being brought to the Rebels animation, that each of our own mind's eyes have notions of his characteristics that color our perception ... that shade what we see and perceive.
 
An example:  When you see him on Rebels, you stare and swear that his hair is black sometimes in certain light (just like some of those EU book covers or artworks) or maybe blue-black sometimes, like he's described in the 2017 novel ... instead of the dark blue it actually is throughout the Rebels cartoon, regardless of light.  It is really harder than one might think to focus so strictly on just the very specific source reference and not let details get filled in by the minds' eye from elsewhere.  Or, perhaps, you focus TOO hard on the Rebels costume only, and therefore try to replicate the animation so exactly that your animation to real-world translations seem a bit weird, silly, or hard to understand as a result.
 
The second thing that I realized is that this character IS so well loved, IS so strongly invested in ... that regardless of everyone's best intentions, there will be hurt feelings, bruised pride, and possibly even money lost on costuming that needs redone or has been redone multiple times.  It is because of these things that I will admit to inaction and a lack of decisiveness.  But the fact of the matter is, while it is not my job to make everyone happy, it is my job to ensure that we have standards for a costume that is both accessible to your average costumer as well as as accurate as it can be.  It is a balancing act.  My first attempt at shepherding this through failed, and I will own that.  I will also own the repair.  
 
The text of this CRL is being given a thorough audit versus the reference material (i.e. Rebels screengrabs and videos).  And extra time and care and multiple eyes upon it to absolutely make sure that preconception does not color perception.  Having already started that audit, I can tell you that Basic Acceptance Levels Text WILL be changing. As Brager said, those already approved will remain approved, and as the CRL currently states, any current applicants are on hold / must be approved by LMO.  I absolutely know that I will be upsetting some people with some of the changes made.  Please know and understand that I am making these with thought, care, and a heart that is racing and a wee voice in the back of my head saying "THEY ARE GOING TO TORCH MEEEEEEE".  
 
I kid.  Not really.  Well, just a little.
 
Generally, LMO's do not concern ourselves with L2/L3 reqs and programs.  Those are for the detachment to determine, although  we will likely make suggestions on the L2/3's on this particular CRL, as in regards to wordsmithing and clarifications.
 
I should be posting the text prior to final publish in the next day or so.  
 
Going forward, please do know and understand that, ideally, new CRL creation is supposed to be a community effort played out for all to take part in on the Detachment forums.  Not in private FB chats, not in Instagram, not on a member's FB page or group. That is not to say that those things cannot occur, but the LMO team can only focus our attention square on the forums of the detachments we are assigned.  Too much else splits things everywhere and it is hard to keep track.  In years past it was different, perhaps.  Even on this forum, there were multiple threads in multiple places on this CRL ... some in places everyone could see, some in places that were more closed.  Going forward, I will be damn sure to be keep things herded into one location, and a partner LMO is going to join me to help shoulder some of the multi-tasking required.  This whole thing is new to a lot of folks.  I can only hope that we all learn a little positive something from the experience.
 
Yours ever so humbly and sincerely ...
 
~C

Yep.  And I know TK's require the holster but IOC never did before Krennic, so that's where my head was at - if you had a blaster as an officer, THEN you had the holster, not without.  But I'm ok with updates.

Awesome work.  I think you took a good CRL and made it excellent.

I'm still not a fan of a holster and no gun, but that's my personal opinion - I haven't watched Rebels all the way though so I can't judge if he had the holster without the gun.

There is a gun present in the references.  However, consideration was made to not require an item that may or may not be forbidden at troops.  You will note that, for the most part (although there are exceptions) blasters are all optional things across all the CRL's, even in Stormtrooper CRL's, Heavy Weapon TK CRL's, etc.
 
 

Right, then.  Myself, another LMO not previously on this project, and also a professional tailor (and my household for that matter, who is about done with the pause/rewind/play/pause/rewind ... ) have watched and re-watched the Rebels episodes with Thrawn in them, as well as looked at the stills and screengrabs and even  Disney posters and promotional material.  Then we wrote down observations, and treated it like the character never existed outside of the show.  Ever.  Much easier said than done.
 
Then we compared against the currently published CRL and gave it an overhaul where needed (if needed).  We also considered the multitudes of member and staff feedbacks sent in to us personally, to the team directly, and posted here in this thread.    The draft was then reviewed by IOC Command Staff and adjustments made again where needed.  While not perfect, we think the basic levels are sensible and achievable, while still adhering to accuracy to the cartoon.  And whilst LMO's do not mandate L2/3 reqs, it is felt that the ones below are sensible overall and do promote higher accuracy while still keeping the costume realistic (as in wearable) and attractive.  Which is hard to do when you are imitating an unrealistic animation.
 
And while we were at it, since we were focusing so hard on the cartoon character and Rebels references only .... we added in an optional accessory set that was found in the references.
 
This has NOT been published, yet.  I'm gathering the last little bit of commentary for the next day or so before sending this off for final peer review, edits, and publishing.  I do not expect any major changes from what is presented here, however.
 
Once published, I imagine IOC will start taking submissions for new images where new images say they are needed.
 
 
*****
 
Required Costume Components The following costume components are present and appear as described below.
  Hair and Skin Appearance
For 501st approval: All exposed skin is colored a light to medium blue. Hair is dark blue The arching widow's peak is combed back at the sides and top. In the back, the hair is off of the neck. Makeup is contoured and shaded as to give an angular appearance on the cheeks, forehead, and jaw. Lips are the same color blue as the skin.   
For level two certification (if applicable): There is thin line of red shading underneath the eyes, following the bottom eye rim. The eyebrows are the same shade as the hair. For level three certification (if applicable): Short sideburns curve toward the cheek and end where the cheek contouring begins.  
 
  Tunic, White
For 501st approval: Tunic is made from a medium to heavy weight white suiting material. Tunic is double-breasted with a left over right closure on the tapered yoke. Yoke comes up across the shoulder to the top shoulder seam. The standing collar has square corners, that closes snug, flush, and includes a white modesty panel behind the closure. Sleeves are long, and at the bicep there is a seam on each sleeve forming a (U shaped) bell curve. Two code cylinder pockets located on the outside breast panels of the tunic intersect the bell curve on the biceps. The back of the tunic has two seams that run vertically and parallel to the shoulder seam, meeting the front yoke seam Tunic is constructed with no top-stitching (stitches visible on the exterior surface of fabric).   
For level two certification (if applicable): There is no fitting dart in the center of the yoke. Tunic is secured on the right side by snaps or buttons, not using hook and loop fasteners (Velcro). Tunic is lined. For level three certification (if applicable): The bicep bell curve seam is demarcated and emphasized more than any other seams in the tunic. (Perhaps by thickening seam allowance, perhaps by utilizing a slot seam.) The bicep bell curve seam ends exactly where the code cylinder pocket opening begins.  
 
  Collar Rank Insignia
For 501st approval: There is a rank Insignia on each collar. One bar followed by one outward facing triangle. Rank is Grey or Silver, and edged with a black outline. Insignia is one of the following: an iron on applique material, embroidered, a cloth patch, or a pin. If a pin is used, it should be fastened flush to the collar.  
For level two certification (if applicable): Rank Insignia must have very thin and flat appearance.  
 
  Epaulets
For 501st approval: Dark yellow, yellow-gold or gold colored strips, firmly attached on the edge of each shoulder. The strips are matte or metallic in finish and made with a semi-rigid to rigid material. Positioned across the collar bone where the shoulder begins, between the shoulder seam and yoke seam. The strips do not overlap the seams they sit between. The strips are 1.75 to 3.25 inches wide, with length proportional to the wearer in positioning.   
For level two certification (if applicable): The lower limit of the strip, in positioning, should run parallel to the lowest point of the center of the collar. For level three certification (if applicable): Fits perfectly flush to the tunic. Have a metallic sheen.  
 
  Rank Bar
For 501st approval: Worn on the left side of the tunic over the heart. Rank consists of two rows of colored plastic tiles mounted on a bar. Bottom Row – Three blue, followed by three red tiles. Top Row – Three blue, followed by three yellow tiles. Bar is one strip with four rounded corners. Bar is approximately 5 inches long and 2 inches in height. Bar is grey or silver in color and has a metallic sheen. Rank tile dimensions are appropriate and proportional to the sizing of the bar to allow for equidistant and even spacing from each other and the border of the bar.  
For level two certification (if applicable): Tiles are opaque.  
 
 
 
 
 
Code Cylinders, Rebels
For 501st approval: (4) Code Cylinders, 2 in each pocket. Modified Silver "chalk holder" tube with a short clip and blue top. Dosimeter Style: True Dosimeter with correct clip and Blue top is also acceptable. Clip is silver in color. For level two certification (if applicable): Must be Rebels style code cylinder with correct "silver" clip and blue caps.  
 
 
 
 
 
Belt
For 501st approval: The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material. Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) and 3" (76.2 mm) wide. There are no loops on the belt. A single large snap or rivet is visible to the left of the buckle, snap may be raised to a semi conical shape. The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material. Buckle is adorned with a Rebel’s Era Imperial Code Disk off centered at the top.  
For level two certification (if applicable): Belt does not have grooves. Belt is made of leather.  
 
 
 
 
 
Holster
For 501st approval: Black in color and constructed from leather or leather like material. When possible the holster is made from same material as the belt. Holster has one belt loop, made of the same material as the holster. Length of holster should be such that the bottom tip should extend approximately one to three inches beyond the bottom hem of the tunic.  
For level two certification (if applicable): The Holster is attached to the belt by a 1/2” metal stud.  
  Trousers, White
For 501st approval: Fabric is made from medium to heavy weight white suiting material identical to the tunic. Straight legged in style. Trousers are not jodhpurs, tights, or riding breeches. Trousers are worn neatly tucked into boots with no blousing. Visible pockets are not allowed.   
 
 
 
 
 
Boots
For 501st approval: Knee-high, black, lace-less, smooth non-textured, leather or leather-like material. PVC or synthetic material is allowed as long as it gives the appearance of leather. There are no stretch panels, buckles, snap tabs, or decoration. Boots have conservative heels. If zippers are present, they are hidden on the inner part of the boot shaft, and are not visible from the front, side or back. The top of the boots are flat style, not Spanish, Cowboy, or Superhero.   
For level two certification (if applicable): Boots do not have a zipper. For level three certification (if applicable): Consists of tubular black shin armor sitting over black ankle boots. This is similar to that seen on SW Rebels' Agent Kallus, but tighter, without the grey strip, and black soles instead of grey. No visible means of attachment. No visible seam. Finish and shade of shin armor and boots must be identical.  
 
 
  Optional Accessories Items below are optional costume accessories. These items are not required for approval, but if present appear as described below.
  Eye Color
For 501st approval: Red theatrical contact lenses. While encouraged to complete the look of this character, the contact lens requirement will be waived for 501st acceptance, if the applicant cannot wear contact lenses for health related reasons. All persons wishing to utilize contact lenses are encouraged to first see their optometrist for a fitting.  
For level two certification (if applicable): The entire eye is red.  
 
  Battle Gear
For 501st approval: Open face helmet consisting of a dome and helmet skirt. Helmet is based on the shell of the Snowtrooper/Snow Cmdr. and the AT-ST Driver. The helmet is white. Gold Imperial Code Disks are positioned on both sides of the helmet skirt. White trimmed military style goggles, with a white strap and black lenses are fixed around the helmet. Chest armor is worn over the uniform. Armor is white and matches visual references. Chestplate is shaped similar to Snowtrooper chestplate without the recessed center box. Backplate has a raised square centered on the back, upon which are two round, red translucent disks (lightcovers), one on each bottom corner of the square. Backplate and chestplate curve in under the arms to meet on the sides. Chest armor shoulder straps attach the chestplate to the backplate, and are gold, matching the uniform epaulets. There are white screw / snap covers on the back of the shoulder straps, but not the front. Rankbar is worn on the chestplate on the left side. Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, fitted gloves with no buckles or straps.   
 
 
Pistol
For 501st approval: Accurate Rebels' Era Imperial Officer's Pistol. 

Absolutely.  As the XO of BHG just told me, this will MURDER our forums until we can fix those posts.

Oh certainly! I have all those images SOMEWHERE on my hard drive. Going through 3 years of posts and uploading the photos again however is just not realistic. I noticed over on a Rebel Legion thread that I was looking at just yesterday. This will certainly make problems for people. 

So, a friend of mine pointed out to me this was up - but ignoring his issues with the actual CRL (which I'm sure he'll post about at some point) - why was the model's pictures photoshopped?  (And badly I might add - and I'm not one to talk because I can't photoshop my butt out of a box, but the blue extends off the hands and onto the tunic, and the hair is blue)
 
http://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:ID_Thrawn_Animated_SWRebels
 

I'm saying the hair shows this was photoshopped sir, and I'm not trying to be offensive, but from a graphic design AND a photography standpoint (both of which I have enough experience with to be able to see things, even if I can't absolutely replicate them), this picture was photoshopped.  The blue color UNDER the hair is far too even - a filter was ran on it.

I have seen pictures of you made up and they don't look like this.  I think made up your Thrawn looked very good - I'm questioning why we didn't use those pictures and instead used these.

I'm saying the hair shows this was photoshopped sir, and I'm not trying to be offensive, but from a graphic design AND a photography standpoint (both of which I have enough experience with to be able to see things, even if I can't absolutely replicate them), this picture was photoshopped.  The blue color UNDER the hair is far too even - a filter was ran on it.

I have seen pictures of you made up and they don't look like this.  I think made up your Thrawn looked very good - I'm questioning why we didn't use those pictures and instead used these.

I'm saying the hair shows this was photoshopped sir, and I'm not trying to be offensive, but from a graphic design AND a photography standpoint (both of which I have enough experience with to be able to see things, even if I can't absolutely replicate them), this picture was photoshopped.  The blue color UNDER the hair is far too even - a filter was ran on it.

I have seen pictures of you made up and they don't look like this.  I think made up your Thrawn looked very good - I'm questioning why we didn't use those pictures and instead used these.

Depends on the exchange rate.  Right now for two of his it's around $65 USD.  When I bought my first two it was close to $85 with the exchange rate.  The fact the dollar stopped tanking (for now) vs. other currencies is helpful, but with all the comments coming from DC, it's possible we would see something like $100 for two in the near future.

Love Philo and his dosimeters, but it would be helpful if we got someone on this side of the pond making them too.

Hello guys.
 
I may be one of the few interested by this but yet. I think it worth to discuss a bit on it.
As I went on the main site to check the CRL I was please to discover that an Admiral Tarkin CRL was released.
Well I told myself, maybe I missed the CRL discussion, but the result is really nice and work really well done.
 
Yet as I looked through the CRL and checked with the one I have for over a year...it appears some details varies and I think that some points could be discussed.
My proposition concerns three points here, no big deal.
 
The first point is the pipping and wrist bands.
When I did mine I went for dark green version following the only references avaible at time :
- The Rebel Legion Standards ( I know, I know they are not really known for being precise)
- The color of the seams and wrist bands from the ROTS uniforms
I shared last year my sources here :
When I went to my professional costum maker we decided that we would go for a dark green color based on the really harsh color from the animated series but also with the obviously green color used in the movies.
My thoughs was that we could add the green color option for the S pipping and the wrists bands to the CRL.
 
The second point is the cut of the tunic.
As I agree with 95% of what is written my feel is that for level 2 or 3 we should add the presence of a split at the back of the jacket.
We can clearly see that they are present on the uniforms of the animated series.
One of the best exemple is the one that we see at the back of Yularen uniform :
https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/4/47/Yularenblockade.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091227043148
I believe that it is more than a detail and worth to be added to the CRL.
 
Last point is the rank bar.
Again the TV show is a simplifation of the real ones.
Yet I think that we should add the option to have it in real style.
Again the original rank plates used in ROTS are in the sources I shared previously.
 
We can argue for a realistic version and an animated version.
What do you think ?
 

Michael "Panzercakes" Ruiz: Santa Maria, CA. USA
 
Hello,
 
I'm requesting an advisor for help in building Director Krennic's uniform. (Hopefully this isn't limited by location, but I would be greatly appreciative of any help I can get)
 
Many thanks in advance! 
 
 

Ashley, too much to quote and I'm too sick to do it right, so I'm not going to try.  I will go back to what I said before - you keep hitting on nailing accuracy.  And I have no issue with that for higher levels.  But my understanding across most detachments (and BJ was like this here until he stepped down) was L1 was a recognizable character to fans.  (And yes, I realize when I was in my staff officer I got "who are you?" all the time, but that was at large events around people who only knew Vader and maybe Fett from Star Wars.)  Level 2 and above is getting into the "more accurate" and "most accurate" parts.

Are push buttons more expensive here?  Yep.  Are they across the pond?  Not according to a different post Cassandra made.  Are they 100% accurate?  Hell no.  Are they 85% accurate?  Yep.

Look, when I was writing the Krennic CRL I started where you are on a lot of things (I'm ignoring what came out of the other end because that's an argument I'm STILL having).  I had exact screen accurate stitching and exact panels and exact everything on the cloak, and down to the mm specifications on things - and was talked off that ledge for Level 1, because a) it would have restricted how many people could do that character (which is a valid point), and b ) the absolute screen accurate details were for Level 3, not Level 1.

If you restrict the rank bar at Level 1 to one exact type, (so far) made by only one creator - you restrict how many people can make this character.  Yeah, I can get one of Tigg's rank bars for $20.  Call it $30 for the newer style that she has to do something to.  But add import/export fees and shipping and taxes and whatever else some country will slap onto it and someone in another country is potentially looking at $120 USD for a rank bar.  Which if you want to hit higher levels, cool, you're probably ok with.  If you just want to do the character and want to look like the character, probably not so much (and we have to accept that there are many members, no matter how important it is to some of us, who don't give a damn about higher levels).  And we're back to my initial argument about push buttons when the only vendors being listed were across the pond and we were looking at $70-$120 for a rank bar that Kris said he wanted required at Level 1.

It's common sense and realistic expectations.  And I realize I'm just one voice, and ya'll can ignore mine - but I can guarantee you that there are plenty of people who agree with me, and just simply don't post or don't think they'll be listened to.

The CRL will be the CRL, I get that.  I put 8 months in on Krennic and what came out on the other end wasn't even close in a lot of areas to what we had settled on in those 8 months of discussion.  But what I DID learn from that is for basic approval, sometimes we have to let the little things go, and see the bigger picture.

And I understand that.  But we need to quit making certain costumes "special," unless we push across that special to all at once.  As we've gone over, Plexi isn't accurate for OT.  Yet it's still allowed all the way though Level 3.  Making special rules ONLY for certain costumes is only punishing those that want to make those costumes.

On a more positive note.....I finished the book on Friday.  Hands down the best Star Wars book I have ever read. 

Lol, I get that. I grew up in Louisiana, and have had to remind people as the GMBO the last 8-10 months that Star was more than Texas, so wanting Texas-themed Garrison merch wasn't something I was ready to do, given the stories about Bast Alpha. Maybe in the future - I already have a line on Bast merch so I can rep my hometown


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I get that. I started out in Star Garrison, in Arkansas before they formed their own garrison. I meant, it is tough living in the shadow of Texas. It is called 'Star' garrison, that doesn't leave much in the name for other states. I personally believe the other garrisons should have been grouped from the start. I was happy to be in the garrison and I have several friends in Texas, but it was hard for the other states to feel included next to Texas just because of the size and amount of personnel in the state compared to others. Plus, I look terrible in a cowboy hat.