rattleandburn

I think you will be ok to submit at that time

Any word on when this will be open until? I'd like to submit but I won't have anyone else home to take photos of me until mid-next week.  

Any word on when this will be open until? I'd like to submit but I won't have anyone else home to take photos of me until mid-next week.  

I thought I would post an update....After all of the commotion with the CRL I have revised and recreated my uniform.  I have also dyed my hair black so that it is easier to just add a little bit of blue to it.  I think the new uniform is a large improvement to the first.  I am having it altered to have straight seams in the back and then I think it will bring it into compliance with the new proposed CRL.  Let me know what you all think! 
 

 

 

 
 

This is a massive improvement on both clarity and accuracy, thank you for your hard work. All of my issues with the CRL have been addressed and added to it/resolved, and now I'm a very happy Thrawn. (and my costume still fits the regs, lol)

Lip makeup wording we can readjust.
 
The main aim of that line is/was to steer folks away from what is seen more often than I would like ... and that is what looks like dark blue lipstick.  Might just reword that line to simply say that ... Blue lipstick should not be used.  Will ponder.
 
Having done colored makeup before, I know that a thinner layer of the same thing I am using on my face on my lips produces that fleshy grey pink undertone under the color that you see in the Thrawn animation.  So I know it is attainable.  Where to place that and how to word, we will discuss before publishing.
 
I will be sending this up the chain to start the publishing process tomorrow.
 
IOC will be taking submissions for the images needing replacement after.

This is a massive improvement on both clarity and accuracy, thank you for your hard work. All of my issues with the CRL have been addressed and added to it/resolved, and now I'm a very happy Thrawn. (and my costume still fits the regs, lol)

This is a massive improvement on both clarity and accuracy, thank you for your hard work. All of my issues with the CRL have been addressed and added to it/resolved, and now I'm a very happy Thrawn. (and my costume still fits the regs, lol)

This is a massive improvement on both clarity and accuracy, thank you for your hard work. All of my issues with the CRL have been addressed and added to it/resolved, and now I'm a very happy Thrawn. (and my costume still fits the regs, lol)

And I'd just like to add how great it is that so many little kids love Thrawn and want to hug him. I suppose its because he's the first soft-spoken "nice" villain who doesn't look scary on the show, but little kids love him  I've been hugged by so many tiny children, especially at Celebration

I think gold vs. yellow as a real life vs. cartoon accuracy thing is open to debate, imo as we have the more 'realistic' iteration of Thrawn (book cover/promo art) that shows his epaulets shaded to have a metallic sheen, I think gold is pretty accurate. Also anyone with a metal epaulet is hopefully wise enough to dull the edge so its not going to cut them or anyone else - much like the dulled edges on officer belt buckles. Metal shoulder bars are not the norm, but high quality historical and reproduction epaulets (i.e. those used for things like Legends Thrawn) are made of metal and metal wire. A hard plastic, sealed foam, or metal seems quite reasonable and gives people a range of options. If you want to go for a softer feel, a heavier sealed craft foam could have the look of a solid and the squishability you're looking for maybe?


From a makeup standpoint; your (generic you, not you in particular) skin has variation in pigment and tone, and the way in which natural skin looks under light is entirely different from how you look with a very matte color put on top of you. I have very prominent Tarkin-level cheekbones, and if I'm wearing a heavy foundation *or* a bodypaint cosplay, I shade and contour so that there is dimension to the face instead of a matte single tone. The under-jaw area is very important to shade regardless of bone structure, and for Thrawn in particular, his curved browbone arches are a feature that no human is going to naturally have, and would be best to be shaded on. Mostly the issue is that natural skin is dynamic and has variation, a flat blue paint has no variation and is not dynamic. Even as a cartoon, Thrawn's skin texture is is detailed and has variation in color and tone (and freckles! which is kind of adorable)

Just chiming in for a couple things:
 
1. To echo Tentayena's words up there somewhat... not only am I hella new to the 501st I'm also very new to the IOC and even NEWER to the Thrawn fandom and Rebels, so I completely missed the initial discussion around his CRL. But now I have all this ~passion~ to see him done justice, as he's rapidly become a favourite character. So yes, I missed the boat by a lot, and didn't weigh in the first time, but the fact that a fairly new-to-the-party fan such as myself could see so many issues with the CRL goes to show that there -were- issues there. It's not really like not voting and then complaining afterwards, because unlike a presidency, we're not locked into or stuck with the winner for four years. It's all subject to change, as proven!
2. Despite the uh... volatile reception and resulting issues following the CRL release, I'd like to commend various LMO's for taking responsibility and for giving us all the chance to make it work. TRUE we might still get new Thrawn/Rebels fans, new IOC/501st members later on with -further- changes and issues, but as mentioned, CRL's are fluid and open to change so even then there might be changes. Which is great! The openness to change and go back to re-address the situation to ensure accuracy is a brilliant attitude and drives us all to be the best we can be.
3. I agree with all of the proposed alterations mentioned above, so don't really have much to add other than "I second these things", but I consider my hat thrown into the ring. I look forward to the new draft CRL and to all of the resulting Thrawns who emerge after it goes live, after having been able to follow a CRL with (hopefully!) less controversy and concern over accuracy.
 
Much love. <3

I think gold vs. yellow as a real life vs. cartoon accuracy thing is open to debate, imo as we have the more 'realistic' iteration of Thrawn (book cover/promo art) that shows his epaulets shaded to have a metallic sheen, I think gold is pretty accurate. Also anyone with a metal epaulet is hopefully wise enough to dull the edge so its not going to cut them or anyone else - much like the dulled edges on officer belt buckles. Metal shoulder bars are not the norm, but high quality historical and reproduction epaulets (i.e. those used for things like Legends Thrawn) are made of metal and metal wire. A hard plastic, sealed foam, or metal seems quite reasonable and gives people a range of options. If you want to go for a softer feel, a heavier sealed craft foam could have the look of a solid and the squishability you're looking for maybe?


From a makeup standpoint; your (generic you, not you in particular) skin has variation in pigment and tone, and the way in which natural skin looks under light is entirely different from how you look with a very matte color put on top of you. I have very prominent Tarkin-level cheekbones, and if I'm wearing a heavy foundation *or* a bodypaint cosplay, I shade and contour so that there is dimension to the face instead of a matte single tone. The under-jaw area is very important to shade regardless of bone structure, and for Thrawn in particular, his curved browbone arches are a feature that no human is going to naturally have, and would be best to be shaded on. Mostly the issue is that natural skin is dynamic and has variation, a flat blue paint has no variation and is not dynamic. Even as a cartoon, Thrawn's skin texture is is detailed and has variation in color and tone (and freckles! which is kind of adorable)

We're not changing colors of things?I  assume this is refering to the chroming suggestion, you can chrome/metal coat in other colors besides silver and I thought that did not need to be stated that gold was the intention. If that was unclear, I apologize!
 
A lot of what was stated here is NOT tiny details. Curved back seams versus straight seams is a very large, very obvious detail specific to the grand admiral costume and should be treated as such. Arm seams is not a dead horse, its right there and there are many images from the show and the discussion within this thread did not come to a coherent conclusion. If you're wondering where I was when the specifics of the arm seams were being discussed, the answer is Norway, Ukraine, and Canada with limited internet access.

Nowhere did I address the photoshopping of makeup, frankly that is not my problem nor my concern. Accuracy of sewn garments is my jam. The makeup commentary in my post was about additional documents to help the community, and/or for those following this thread with interest in Thrawn. It wasn't an attack.

The fact of the matter is, that there was some debate and discussion ongoing here, which is great. Followed by a CRL going live without a draft or updated WIP posted for discussion beforehand; that's an issue, and the errors within the CRL that no doubt result from not having that 'peer review' stage require fixing.

 

No one has posted anything new in this thread since the kerfluffle and resulting post in the "Thrawn CRL Pic Debate" thread, in which we were directed back to THIS thread for discussion on inaccuracies. I am very much a commissioner and lurker, not an active poster, and I have been following this thread from the start - most of the issues I would like to bring up have been addressed in the past in this thread, but were looked over in the creation of the CRL so now I think it's important to actually come in and speak up about it. Thrawn is a character who has greatly grown in popularity recently and well-loved by even the children and casual fans in the fandom, its a disservice to a great many people both within the 501st and those who enjoy seeing their favorite characters at troops to not aim to do our best in creating guidelines. I am not trying to say here that I am 100% factually accurate on everything, just that this is what I see with the readily available reference, and my own suggestions for things that are missing from the CRL entirely, or things that I think could help everyone interested in costuming Thrawn.
 
 
 
Hair and Skin Appearance
For 501st approval:
 
§  All exposed skin is colored blue.
§  Hair is close-cropped and dark blue or black.
§  Makeup is contoured and shaded as to give an angular appearance with cheeks and jaw.
For level two certification (if applicable):
 
§  Hair looks natural, and is styled in a way as to not give the appearance of a wig.
§  Hair is dark-blue.
 
Proposed changes:
As contoured cheeks and jaw are already specified, specify contoured forehead as well, as the new Chiss design features a brow area as prominent as the cheeks and jaw. Specify a light/teal blue; there are many paint options in many pricepoints and while Legends Thrawn is open to interpretation Rebels Thrawn has a solid visual reference.
Best available products:

Kryolan Aquacolor, light blue + green teal mix (inexpensive, easy to use, available for online order in most territories. You can contour with it in a darker color as well if desired. Best noob makeup artist option as it lasts very well with proper sealing for all-day wear)

Ben Nye Magicake, they have many blue and teal, some very close to Rebels Thrawn’s skintone (inexpensive,easy to use, would suggest powder contour with this brand. Application is the same as Aquacolor, but does not have quite as much longevity – it is however very cheap. #2 noob makeup artist option, #1 cheap option)

Kryolan Supracolor, dark teal or light blue + green teal mix. (more expensive, is grease based so slightly harder to use but provides cleaner/smoother coverage. Can contour in dark color if desired)

Vibe, water based liquid makeup from European Body Art. (mid-range price, lasts a long time. Liquids are very easily mixable for different colors, but they do have an existing teal that is a pretty good match! Suitable for airbrush or sponge/brush hand application. Would suggest either contour with same, or powder contour once dried. Mid-level makeup ability option)

Endura Alcohol Based Makeup, from European Body Art (Very similar to Vibe, slightly more expensive, extremely good coverage and versatility. Extremely long wear. Can contour with same, or powder makeup. They have an existing turquoise/teal that is a great tone, as well as more greenish or dark blue to mix if you like. This is my favorite makeup for body paint applications, and if sealed properly you will not have any rub-off on your collar and sleeve cuffs. Best higher-level makeup ability option)

For contour/detailing:

multi-color powder pallete from coastalscents.com (It can be difficult to find blue eyeshadow or similar as it is not on trend, this website provides inexpensive (10-20$) palletes of many colors, they will last a long time and have good coverage and will make contouring easy.)



Blue hair should not be a level two cert. It is an obvious visual aspect of the character and integral to his overall look. This is not a too daunting if you know where to look! there are a multitude of good quality blue hairsprays on the market. If you’re in the US, Sally Beauty Supply has a range of options in the 5-10$ range, internationally they’re on Amazon and Ebay. If you have short hair, or an existing wig in similar style, you can style your hair and use this spray instead of a regular hair product and match the visual appearance of the character with very minimal effort.

 I’m very well versed in this as I cut and dyed my hair blue for Thrawn and am super lazy and need to cover up my roots a lot; here are some relevant products, NONE of these are permanent, all wash out fully with shampoo:

Jerome Russel B Wild spray in blue (US/International, 5.99 USD)
Superdrug Color Hairspray, blue (UK, 2.99 £)
Color Bombz temporary hair spray, blue (US, Sally Beauty. International, Amazon 5.99$)
Kryolan Color spray, blue (for theatrical applications, available internationally through most makeup supply websites. 9.99$)

There are more but these are those readily available at beauty shops, some Target stores, and easily searchable on Amazon.

Additionally: There are other CRLS, like Kylo, that have ‘offshoot’ documents detailing specific aspects. For a character like Thrawn, having one to focus on makeup and hair would be beneficial to a lot of people who may be new to this aspect of costuming, and I am sure there are people here (myself included) who would be glad to assist.


 
  Tunic, White
For 501st approval:
 
§  Fabric is white and of a suiting material matching the pants.
§  Tunic is double-breasted with a left over right closure on the tapered yoke.
§  Yoke comes up across the shoulder to the top shoulder seam.
§  The standing collar has square corners.
§  It closes snugly, flush and includes a modesty panel behind the closure.
§  There are code cylinder pockets on both outside panels of the jacket from about half way between the top and bottom on the arm hole.
§  Sleeves are long, with curved shoulder cap and without additional decoration, cuffs or buttons.
§  There is a line on each sleeve curving from the middle of the arm pit over the arm in a modified U or bell curve shape connecting to the shoulder cap seams. This line is distinguished by a seam or some other tailoring method.
§  Tunic is constructed with no top-stitching (stitches visible on the exterior surface of fabric) 
For level two certification (if applicable):
 
§  The back of the tunic has princess seams that run vertically to the shoulder seam, meeting the front yoke seam
§  There is no fitting dart in the centre of the yoke.
§  The curved U arm line is black.
For level three certification (if applicable):
 
§  Tunic is secured on the right side by snaps or buttons.
§  No hook and loop fasteners (Velcro).
 
Proposed Changes:

Straight back seams should be moved to first-level certification. All reference of Rebels Thrawn (besides the Black Series Limited Edition figure, which it looks like they just re-used the Tarkin sculpt for) show straight back seams, and we have a front/side/back of the official design and 3D model thanks to Rebels animation team.

From a patterning and seamstress standpoint, this feature is no more difficult than regular officer seam lines. If you have an existing officer tunic pattern, you can pin the center back and side back pieces together, draw a line following the princess seam up to the shoulder, and you have redrafted your piece to suit the look. This is likely within the skill level of most who are sewing their own costume, and I would guess all who commission imperial tunics.

Everyone's seen this photo obviously as it's at the start of the thread, but it does quite clearly show straight back seams as part of his original specific design here.




Re-open discussion on U-curved arm seam. Going back through the CRL discussion thread, there was never a solid consensus on this subject. We have the front/side/back view of the character model (below) rendered in neutral lighting. This shows an arm seam of the same grey tone as the other seams in Thrawn’s uniform. It appears to be rendered as a seam line in the flat texture of the garment as are the rest of the seams on his uniform, not a separate style of detailing that would require a dark appearance, piping, etc as discussed. It looks as though it may be a slightly thicker line as drawn than, for example, his back seams. Others have suggested in the thread its like a shadow/shading from it; you could produce a more demarcated seam to provide this by pressing your seam allowance one way or the other rather than pressing open, it would appear a little thicker and more obvious.

Here's a couple screengrabs showing him in different lighting; even if/when the U-curve line looks very dark, its the same shade as the other seams right beside it.
 





Golden Epaulets.
As per animation/modelling logic for the tunic discussed above, Rebel Thrawn's epaulets end abruptly before reaching the ends of his shoudlers so as to avoid his arms clipping into them as they move.. i.e. his shoulder seam exists, and then his arm goes past it; this isn’t easily producible in a costume that is well fitted to a real life person. I would suggest looking at where Thrawn’s epaulets sit in relation to his yoke and shoulder seams, and come to a consensus about width. It already states no overlap of seams which is very good, but a lower limit on sizing in comparison to shoulder area available (as we can see how much of the shoulder seam to yoke seam space is occupied) would assist with uniformity of appearance and accuracy, perhaps as a level 2/3 cert.

Also consider: chrome coat/vacuum metalizing as materials suggestion. Metal is higher level cert right now, this is more accessible to the masses who don't have machining capabilities if they are able to foam/worbla/wood/3Dprint/whatever their epaulets to specifically match their body size, and have them metal coated to perfection. Link to types of chrome finishing, not all are relevant chrome coating



Thrawn’s epaulets sit fully flush to the shoulders, not at all raised  and with no visible means of attachment beneath them. If possible, the epaulets should have a recess beneath for Velcro/chosen fixture so as not to create a raised bump or gap effect when applied, resulting in a smooth, flush fit – for level 2/3 cert



Example to illustrate recessed fixture:



Holster:
Sizing guide as to where the holster should end. See visual reference below. We have a solid guide to sizing provided in the cartoon. Too small or too large would be quite noticeable. As you can see it hangs slightly below the hem of the tunic. Perhaps wording like “Holster end approximately 1-3” below hem of tunic” to provide wiggle room, for higher level cert.


 
Officer Boots:
This appears to be copy-paste from Legends Thrawn CRL. For Legends Thrawn we never had an accurate boot reference, for Rebels Thrawn we do (below) and they are shown as flat-top boot only, no Spanish style riding boots. As it stands, specifically flat-top accurate boots are not even listed as a higher level cert. Due to solid evidence, it would be best put as basic approval (and it’s a fair assumption that most IOC members have some form of officer boot already unless this is their first costume build!) so it shouldn’t be undue hardship. If not basic level, it should at least required for a level 2/3 cert.


 
 
Optional Accessories
Gloves were discussed in thread previously, and I am not against being allowed to wear gloves with this costume at all. Making up your hands in body paint, especially with a white uniform, can prove difficult.  However, he has not been seen wearing gloves in new canon media. I would suggest adding (not removing black leather) blue skintone gloves to the accessory list. It’s a common trick with body paint cosplayers, you use nylon tights in the right color and make very form-fitting gloves. Welovecolors.com  has an extensive range, including many blues and teals to match most makeups. This is inexpensive, and can provide a little more visual accuracy, with the added bonus of improved dexterity/being able to use your phone when worn.
 
 

And this is a friendly suggestion for a product not many people know exists, not a CRL commentary: there are half-sclera lenses bigger than standard red contacts but smaller/easier to use/cheaper than full eye scleras. They provide significantly more coverage and look great in photos, without the discomfort of full scleras. You can find them at sclera-lenses.com
 

This is not meant to be an end-all, be-all or “I’m right, you’re not!” post and I definitely want the input of others on my points and/or reference to prove me incorrect. This is just what I see with the reference available, and products or items that I think can help us all be the best Thrawn we can be.
 
 

Thank you for making sure this is properly addressed and for clearly stating as much, I know myself and the community as a whole appreciates it. Its  not your job to make everyone happy, as you said, but an edit for clarity and accuracy will definitely make a vast majority of Thrawn costumers happy. 

Thank you so much for addressing this
We appreciate you and all the work you and your team do <3

I don't mean to sound sarcastic or anything in saying this, but basically if CRL's like the Kylo Ren one can nitpick about how many straight lines of stitching cross the palm on a glove, or the exact height in inches of a variety of things, I think its well within the means of the IOC to have 'back seams must be straight to match tunic design' or 'boots must be flat topped as shown'. These are not tiny details, these things are very large.

We're not changing colors of things?I  assume this is refering to the chroming suggestion, you can chrome/metal coat in other colors besides silver and I thought that did not need to be stated that gold was the intention. If that was unclear, I apologize!
 
A lot of what was stated here is NOT tiny details. Curved back seams versus straight seams is a very large, very obvious detail specific to the grand admiral costume and should be treated as such. Arm seams is not a dead horse, its right there and there are many images from the show and the discussion within this thread did not come to a coherent conclusion. If you're wondering where I was when the specifics of the arm seams were being discussed, the answer is Norway, Ukraine, and Canada with limited internet access.

Nowhere did I address the photoshopping of makeup, frankly that is not my problem nor my concern. Accuracy of sewn garments is my jam. The makeup commentary in my post was about additional documents to help the community, and/or for those following this thread with interest in Thrawn. It wasn't an attack.

The fact of the matter is, that there was some debate and discussion ongoing here, which is great. Followed by a CRL going live without a draft or updated WIP posted for discussion beforehand; that's an issue, and the errors within the CRL that no doubt result from not having that 'peer review' stage require fixing.

 

Allrighty then.  Hi!  One of six LMO's here.  I'm Cari.
 
This has got to have been one of the most difficult CRL's I've worked on.  Less technically difficult and far more emotionally difficult.  The character is so well loved, so highly invested in, and so entrenched into our Star Wars culture from such a variety of media.  As an LMO, I and the rest of the LMO team want  to do justice to the costumer, the source, the character itself.  In trying so very hard to not disappoint and upset anyone, by not wishing to go too fast OR too slow ... mistakes were made and we're left with a whole heap of upset.  My boss, Brager, took a mea culpa, but I rightfully am taking one also.  The IOC is one of my assigned detachments and I am just as responsible.  
 
Now.  I've taken a very long and exhausting think about this costume and the CRL.  I have discovered a few things and come to the conclusion of a few things.  The first is that this particular costume is fraught with the subtleties of perception.  What I mean by that is:  the character itself has been represented for so long in such a myriad of ways way before being brought to the Rebels animation, that each of our own mind's eyes have notions of his characteristics that color our perception ... that shade what we see and perceive.
 
An example:  When you see him on Rebels, you stare and swear that his hair is black sometimes in certain light (just like some of those EU book covers or artworks) or maybe blue-black sometimes, like he's described in the 2017 novel ... instead of the dark blue it actually is throughout the Rebels cartoon, regardless of light.  It is really harder than one might think to focus so strictly on just the very specific source reference and not let details get filled in by the minds' eye from elsewhere.  Or, perhaps, you focus TOO hard on the Rebels costume only, and therefore try to replicate the animation so exactly that your animation to real-world translations seem a bit weird, silly, or hard to understand as a result.
 
The second thing that I realized is that this character IS so well loved, IS so strongly invested in ... that regardless of everyone's best intentions, there will be hurt feelings, bruised pride, and possibly even money lost on costuming that needs redone or has been redone multiple times.  It is because of these things that I will admit to inaction and a lack of decisiveness.  But the fact of the matter is, while it is not my job to make everyone happy, it is my job to ensure that we have standards for a costume that is both accessible to your average costumer as well as as accurate as it can be.  It is a balancing act.  My first attempt at shepherding this through failed, and I will own that.  I will also own the repair.  
 
The text of this CRL is being given a thorough audit versus the reference material (i.e. Rebels screengrabs and videos).  And extra time and care and multiple eyes upon it to absolutely make sure that preconception does not color perception.  Having already started that audit, I can tell you that Basic Acceptance Levels Text WILL be changing. As Brager said, those already approved will remain approved, and as the CRL currently states, any current applicants are on hold / must be approved by LMO.  I absolutely know that I will be upsetting some people with some of the changes made.  Please know and understand that I am making these with thought, care, and a heart that is racing and a wee voice in the back of my head saying "THEY ARE GOING TO TORCH MEEEEEEE".  
 
I kid.  Not really.  Well, just a little.
 
Generally, LMO's do not concern ourselves with L2/L3 reqs and programs.  Those are for the detachment to determine, although  we will likely make suggestions on the L2/3's on this particular CRL, as in regards to wordsmithing and clarifications.
 
I should be posting the text prior to final publish in the next day or so.  
 
Going forward, please do know and understand that, ideally, new CRL creation is supposed to be a community effort played out for all to take part in on the Detachment forums.  Not in private FB chats, not in Instagram, not on a member's FB page or group. That is not to say that those things cannot occur, but the LMO team can only focus our attention square on the forums of the detachments we are assigned.  Too much else splits things everywhere and it is hard to keep track.  In years past it was different, perhaps.  Even on this forum, there were multiple threads in multiple places on this CRL ... some in places everyone could see, some in places that were more closed.  Going forward, I will be damn sure to be keep things herded into one location, and a partner LMO is going to join me to help shoulder some of the multi-tasking required.  This whole thing is new to a lot of folks.  I can only hope that we all learn a little positive something from the experience.
 
Yours ever so humbly and sincerely ...
 
~C

The thing is, I think MOST of us were waiting for a crl draft or an updated WIP 
 
I know I was. I was approved so late in the game and didn’t start really lurking here until late may. Dragging up old things that never seemed to reach a consensus didn’t seem smart, and every other CRL thread I’ve lurked on has posted a revised version before going live
 
Regardless, the points above are worth discussing, especially with the references provided to improve the crl itself. 

No one has posted anything new in this thread since the kerfluffle and resulting post in the "Thrawn CRL Pic Debate" thread, in which we were directed back to THIS thread for discussion on inaccuracies. I am very much a commissioner and lurker, not an active poster, and I have been following this thread from the start - most of the issues I would like to bring up have been addressed in the past in this thread, but were looked over in the creation of the CRL so now I think it's important to actually come in and speak up about it. Thrawn is a character who has greatly grown in popularity recently and well-loved by even the children and casual fans in the fandom, its a disservice to a great many people both within the 501st and those who enjoy seeing their favorite characters at troops to not aim to do our best in creating guidelines. I am not trying to say here that I am 100% factually accurate on everything, just that this is what I see with the readily available reference, and my own suggestions for things that are missing from the CRL entirely, or things that I think could help everyone interested in costuming Thrawn.
 
 
 
Hair and Skin Appearance
For 501st approval:
 
§  All exposed skin is colored blue.
§  Hair is close-cropped and dark blue or black.
§  Makeup is contoured and shaded as to give an angular appearance with cheeks and jaw.
For level two certification (if applicable):
 
§  Hair looks natural, and is styled in a way as to not give the appearance of a wig.
§  Hair is dark-blue.
 
Proposed changes:
As contoured cheeks and jaw are already specified, specify contoured forehead as well, as the new Chiss design features a brow area as prominent as the cheeks and jaw. Specify a light/teal blue; there are many paint options in many pricepoints and while Legends Thrawn is open to interpretation Rebels Thrawn has a solid visual reference.
Best available products:

Kryolan Aquacolor, light blue + green teal mix (inexpensive, easy to use, available for online order in most territories. You can contour with it in a darker color as well if desired. Best noob makeup artist option as it lasts very well with proper sealing for all-day wear)

Ben Nye Magicake, they have many blue and teal, some very close to Rebels Thrawn’s skintone (inexpensive,easy to use, would suggest powder contour with this brand. Application is the same as Aquacolor, but does not have quite as much longevity – it is however very cheap. #2 noob makeup artist option, #1 cheap option)

Kryolan Supracolor, dark teal or light blue + green teal mix. (more expensive, is grease based so slightly harder to use but provides cleaner/smoother coverage. Can contour in dark color if desired)

Vibe, water based liquid makeup from European Body Art. (mid-range price, lasts a long time. Liquids are very easily mixable for different colors, but they do have an existing teal that is a pretty good match! Suitable for airbrush or sponge/brush hand application. Would suggest either contour with same, or powder contour once dried. Mid-level makeup ability option)

Endura Alcohol Based Makeup, from European Body Art (Very similar to Vibe, slightly more expensive, extremely good coverage and versatility. Extremely long wear. Can contour with same, or powder makeup. They have an existing turquoise/teal that is a great tone, as well as more greenish or dark blue to mix if you like. This is my favorite makeup for body paint applications, and if sealed properly you will not have any rub-off on your collar and sleeve cuffs. Best higher-level makeup ability option)

For contour/detailing:

multi-color powder pallete from coastalscents.com (It can be difficult to find blue eyeshadow or similar as it is not on trend, this website provides inexpensive (10-20$) palletes of many colors, they will last a long time and have good coverage and will make contouring easy.)



Blue hair should not be a level two cert. It is an obvious visual aspect of the character and integral to his overall look. This is not a too daunting if you know where to look! there are a multitude of good quality blue hairsprays on the market. If you’re in the US, Sally Beauty Supply has a range of options in the 5-10$ range, internationally they’re on Amazon and Ebay. If you have short hair, or an existing wig in similar style, you can style your hair and use this spray instead of a regular hair product and match the visual appearance of the character with very minimal effort.

 I’m very well versed in this as I cut and dyed my hair blue for Thrawn and am super lazy and need to cover up my roots a lot; here are some relevant products, NONE of these are permanent, all wash out fully with shampoo:

Jerome Russel B Wild spray in blue (US/International, 5.99 USD)
Superdrug Color Hairspray, blue (UK, 2.99 £)
Color Bombz temporary hair spray, blue (US, Sally Beauty. International, Amazon 5.99$)
Kryolan Color spray, blue (for theatrical applications, available internationally through most makeup supply websites. 9.99$)

There are more but these are those readily available at beauty shops, some Target stores, and easily searchable on Amazon.

Additionally: There are other CRLS, like Kylo, that have ‘offshoot’ documents detailing specific aspects. For a character like Thrawn, having one to focus on makeup and hair would be beneficial to a lot of people who may be new to this aspect of costuming, and I am sure there are people here (myself included) who would be glad to assist.


 
  Tunic, White
For 501st approval:
 
§  Fabric is white and of a suiting material matching the pants.
§  Tunic is double-breasted with a left over right closure on the tapered yoke.
§  Yoke comes up across the shoulder to the top shoulder seam.
§  The standing collar has square corners.
§  It closes snugly, flush and includes a modesty panel behind the closure.
§  There are code cylinder pockets on both outside panels of the jacket from about half way between the top and bottom on the arm hole.
§  Sleeves are long, with curved shoulder cap and without additional decoration, cuffs or buttons.
§  There is a line on each sleeve curving from the middle of the arm pit over the arm in a modified U or bell curve shape connecting to the shoulder cap seams. This line is distinguished by a seam or some other tailoring method.
§  Tunic is constructed with no top-stitching (stitches visible on the exterior surface of fabric) 
For level two certification (if applicable):
 
§  The back of the tunic has princess seams that run vertically to the shoulder seam, meeting the front yoke seam
§  There is no fitting dart in the centre of the yoke.
§  The curved U arm line is black.
For level three certification (if applicable):
 
§  Tunic is secured on the right side by snaps or buttons.
§  No hook and loop fasteners (Velcro).
 
Proposed Changes:

Straight back seams should be moved to first-level certification. All reference of Rebels Thrawn (besides the Black Series Limited Edition figure, which it looks like they just re-used the Tarkin sculpt for) show straight back seams, and we have a front/side/back of the official design and 3D model thanks to Rebels animation team.

From a patterning and seamstress standpoint, this feature is no more difficult than regular officer seam lines. If you have an existing officer tunic pattern, you can pin the center back and side back pieces together, draw a line following the princess seam up to the shoulder, and you have redrafted your piece to suit the look. This is likely within the skill level of most who are sewing their own costume, and I would guess all who commission imperial tunics.

Everyone's seen this photo obviously as it's at the start of the thread, but it does quite clearly show straight back seams as part of his original specific design here.




Re-open discussion on U-curved arm seam. Going back through the CRL discussion thread, there was never a solid consensus on this subject. We have the front/side/back view of the character model (below) rendered in neutral lighting. This shows an arm seam of the same grey tone as the other seams in Thrawn’s uniform. It appears to be rendered as a seam line in the flat texture of the garment as are the rest of the seams on his uniform, not a separate style of detailing that would require a dark appearance, piping, etc as discussed. It looks as though it may be a slightly thicker line as drawn than, for example, his back seams. Others have suggested in the thread its like a shadow/shading from it; you could produce a more demarcated seam to provide this by pressing your seam allowance one way or the other rather than pressing open, it would appear a little thicker and more obvious.

Here's a couple screengrabs showing him in different lighting; even if/when the U-curve line looks very dark, its the same shade as the other seams right beside it.
 





Golden Epaulets.
As per animation/modelling logic for the tunic discussed above, Rebel Thrawn's epaulets end abruptly before reaching the ends of his shoudlers so as to avoid his arms clipping into them as they move.. i.e. his shoulder seam exists, and then his arm goes past it; this isn’t easily producible in a costume that is well fitted to a real life person. I would suggest looking at where Thrawn’s epaulets sit in relation to his yoke and shoulder seams, and come to a consensus about width. It already states no overlap of seams which is very good, but a lower limit on sizing in comparison to shoulder area available (as we can see how much of the shoulder seam to yoke seam space is occupied) would assist with uniformity of appearance and accuracy, perhaps as a level 2/3 cert.

Also consider: chrome coat/vacuum metalizing as materials suggestion. Metal is higher level cert right now, this is more accessible to the masses who don't have machining capabilities if they are able to foam/worbla/wood/3Dprint/whatever their epaulets to specifically match their body size, and have them metal coated to perfection. Link to types of chrome finishing, not all are relevant chrome coating



Thrawn’s epaulets sit fully flush to the shoulders, not at all raised  and with no visible means of attachment beneath them. If possible, the epaulets should have a recess beneath for Velcro/chosen fixture so as not to create a raised bump or gap effect when applied, resulting in a smooth, flush fit – for level 2/3 cert



Example to illustrate recessed fixture:



Holster:
Sizing guide as to where the holster should end. See visual reference below. We have a solid guide to sizing provided in the cartoon. Too small or too large would be quite noticeable. As you can see it hangs slightly below the hem of the tunic. Perhaps wording like “Holster end approximately 1-3” below hem of tunic” to provide wiggle room, for higher level cert.


 
Officer Boots:
This appears to be copy-paste from Legends Thrawn CRL. For Legends Thrawn we never had an accurate boot reference, for Rebels Thrawn we do (below) and they are shown as flat-top boot only, no Spanish style riding boots. As it stands, specifically flat-top accurate boots are not even listed as a higher level cert. Due to solid evidence, it would be best put as basic approval (and it’s a fair assumption that most IOC members have some form of officer boot already unless this is their first costume build!) so it shouldn’t be undue hardship. If not basic level, it should at least required for a level 2/3 cert.


 
 
Optional Accessories
Gloves were discussed in thread previously, and I am not against being allowed to wear gloves with this costume at all. Making up your hands in body paint, especially with a white uniform, can prove difficult.  However, he has not been seen wearing gloves in new canon media. I would suggest adding (not removing black leather) blue skintone gloves to the accessory list. It’s a common trick with body paint cosplayers, you use nylon tights in the right color and make very form-fitting gloves. Welovecolors.com  has an extensive range, including many blues and teals to match most makeups. This is inexpensive, and can provide a little more visual accuracy, with the added bonus of improved dexterity/being able to use your phone when worn.
 
 

And this is a friendly suggestion for a product not many people know exists, not a CRL commentary: there are half-sclera lenses bigger than standard red contacts but smaller/easier to use/cheaper than full eye scleras. They provide significantly more coverage and look great in photos, without the discomfort of full scleras. You can find them at sclera-lenses.com
 

This is not meant to be an end-all, be-all or “I’m right, you’re not!” post and I definitely want the input of others on my points and/or reference to prove me incorrect. This is just what I see with the reference available, and products or items that I think can help us all be the best Thrawn we can be.
 
 

No one has posted anything new in this thread since the kerfluffle and resulting post in the "Thrawn CRL Pic Debate" thread, in which we were directed back to THIS thread for discussion on inaccuracies. I am very much a commissioner and lurker, not an active poster, and I have been following this thread from the start - most of the issues I would like to bring up have been addressed in the past in this thread, but were looked over in the creation of the CRL so now I think it's important to actually come in and speak up about it. Thrawn is a character who has greatly grown in popularity recently and well-loved by even the children and casual fans in the fandom, its a disservice to a great many people both within the 501st and those who enjoy seeing their favorite characters at troops to not aim to do our best in creating guidelines. I am not trying to say here that I am 100% factually accurate on everything, just that this is what I see with the readily available reference, and my own suggestions for things that are missing from the CRL entirely, or things that I think could help everyone interested in costuming Thrawn.
 
 
 
Hair and Skin Appearance
For 501st approval:
 
§  All exposed skin is colored blue.
§  Hair is close-cropped and dark blue or black.
§  Makeup is contoured and shaded as to give an angular appearance with cheeks and jaw.
For level two certification (if applicable):
 
§  Hair looks natural, and is styled in a way as to not give the appearance of a wig.
§  Hair is dark-blue.
 
Proposed changes:
As contoured cheeks and jaw are already specified, specify contoured forehead as well, as the new Chiss design features a brow area as prominent as the cheeks and jaw. Specify a light/teal blue; there are many paint options in many pricepoints and while Legends Thrawn is open to interpretation Rebels Thrawn has a solid visual reference.
Best available products:

Kryolan Aquacolor, light blue + green teal mix (inexpensive, easy to use, available for online order in most territories. You can contour with it in a darker color as well if desired. Best noob makeup artist option as it lasts very well with proper sealing for all-day wear)

Ben Nye Magicake, they have many blue and teal, some very close to Rebels Thrawn’s skintone (inexpensive,easy to use, would suggest powder contour with this brand. Application is the same as Aquacolor, but does not have quite as much longevity – it is however very cheap. #2 noob makeup artist option, #1 cheap option)

Kryolan Supracolor, dark teal or light blue + green teal mix. (more expensive, is grease based so slightly harder to use but provides cleaner/smoother coverage. Can contour in dark color if desired)

Vibe, water based liquid makeup from European Body Art. (mid-range price, lasts a long time. Liquids are very easily mixable for different colors, but they do have an existing teal that is a pretty good match! Suitable for airbrush or sponge/brush hand application. Would suggest either contour with same, or powder contour once dried. Mid-level makeup ability option)

Endura Alcohol Based Makeup, from European Body Art (Very similar to Vibe, slightly more expensive, extremely good coverage and versatility. Extremely long wear. Can contour with same, or powder makeup. They have an existing turquoise/teal that is a great tone, as well as more greenish or dark blue to mix if you like. This is my favorite makeup for body paint applications, and if sealed properly you will not have any rub-off on your collar and sleeve cuffs. Best higher-level makeup ability option)

For contour/detailing:

multi-color powder pallete from coastalscents.com (It can be difficult to find blue eyeshadow or similar as it is not on trend, this website provides inexpensive (10-20$) palletes of many colors, they will last a long time and have good coverage and will make contouring easy.)



Blue hair should not be a level two cert. It is an obvious visual aspect of the character and integral to his overall look. This is not a too daunting if you know where to look! there are a multitude of good quality blue hairsprays on the market. If you’re in the US, Sally Beauty Supply has a range of options in the 5-10$ range, internationally they’re on Amazon and Ebay. If you have short hair, or an existing wig in similar style, you can style your hair and use this spray instead of a regular hair product and match the visual appearance of the character with very minimal effort.

 I’m very well versed in this as I cut and dyed my hair blue for Thrawn and am super lazy and need to cover up my roots a lot; here are some relevant products, NONE of these are permanent, all wash out fully with shampoo:

Jerome Russel B Wild spray in blue (US/International, 5.99 USD)
Superdrug Color Hairspray, blue (UK, 2.99 £)
Color Bombz temporary hair spray, blue (US, Sally Beauty. International, Amazon 5.99$)
Kryolan Color spray, blue (for theatrical applications, available internationally through most makeup supply websites. 9.99$)

There are more but these are those readily available at beauty shops, some Target stores, and easily searchable on Amazon.

Additionally: There are other CRLS, like Kylo, that have ‘offshoot’ documents detailing specific aspects. For a character like Thrawn, having one to focus on makeup and hair would be beneficial to a lot of people who may be new to this aspect of costuming, and I am sure there are people here (myself included) who would be glad to assist.


 
  Tunic, White
For 501st approval:
 
§  Fabric is white and of a suiting material matching the pants.
§  Tunic is double-breasted with a left over right closure on the tapered yoke.
§  Yoke comes up across the shoulder to the top shoulder seam.
§  The standing collar has square corners.
§  It closes snugly, flush and includes a modesty panel behind the closure.
§  There are code cylinder pockets on both outside panels of the jacket from about half way between the top and bottom on the arm hole.
§  Sleeves are long, with curved shoulder cap and without additional decoration, cuffs or buttons.
§  There is a line on each sleeve curving from the middle of the arm pit over the arm in a modified U or bell curve shape connecting to the shoulder cap seams. This line is distinguished by a seam or some other tailoring method.
§  Tunic is constructed with no top-stitching (stitches visible on the exterior surface of fabric) 
For level two certification (if applicable):
 
§  The back of the tunic has princess seams that run vertically to the shoulder seam, meeting the front yoke seam
§  There is no fitting dart in the centre of the yoke.
§  The curved U arm line is black.
For level three certification (if applicable):
 
§  Tunic is secured on the right side by snaps or buttons.
§  No hook and loop fasteners (Velcro).
 
Proposed Changes:

Straight back seams should be moved to first-level certification. All reference of Rebels Thrawn (besides the Black Series Limited Edition figure, which it looks like they just re-used the Tarkin sculpt for) show straight back seams, and we have a front/side/back of the official design and 3D model thanks to Rebels animation team.

From a patterning and seamstress standpoint, this feature is no more difficult than regular officer seam lines. If you have an existing officer tunic pattern, you can pin the center back and side back pieces together, draw a line following the princess seam up to the shoulder, and you have redrafted your piece to suit the look. This is likely within the skill level of most who are sewing their own costume, and I would guess all who commission imperial tunics.

Everyone's seen this photo obviously as it's at the start of the thread, but it does quite clearly show straight back seams as part of his original specific design here.




Re-open discussion on U-curved arm seam. Going back through the CRL discussion thread, there was never a solid consensus on this subject. We have the front/side/back view of the character model (below) rendered in neutral lighting. This shows an arm seam of the same grey tone as the other seams in Thrawn’s uniform. It appears to be rendered as a seam line in the flat texture of the garment as are the rest of the seams on his uniform, not a separate style of detailing that would require a dark appearance, piping, etc as discussed. It looks as though it may be a slightly thicker line as drawn than, for example, his back seams. Others have suggested in the thread its like a shadow/shading from it; you could produce a more demarcated seam to provide this by pressing your seam allowance one way or the other rather than pressing open, it would appear a little thicker and more obvious.

Here's a couple screengrabs showing him in different lighting; even if/when the U-curve line looks very dark, its the same shade as the other seams right beside it.
 





Golden Epaulets.
As per animation/modelling logic for the tunic discussed above, Rebel Thrawn's epaulets end abruptly before reaching the ends of his shoudlers so as to avoid his arms clipping into them as they move.. i.e. his shoulder seam exists, and then his arm goes past it; this isn’t easily producible in a costume that is well fitted to a real life person. I would suggest looking at where Thrawn’s epaulets sit in relation to his yoke and shoulder seams, and come to a consensus about width. It already states no overlap of seams which is very good, but a lower limit on sizing in comparison to shoulder area available (as we can see how much of the shoulder seam to yoke seam space is occupied) would assist with uniformity of appearance and accuracy, perhaps as a level 2/3 cert.

Also consider: chrome coat/vacuum metalizing as materials suggestion. Metal is higher level cert right now, this is more accessible to the masses who don't have machining capabilities if they are able to foam/worbla/wood/3Dprint/whatever their epaulets to specifically match their body size, and have them metal coated to perfection. Link to types of chrome finishing, not all are relevant chrome coating



Thrawn’s epaulets sit fully flush to the shoulders, not at all raised  and with no visible means of attachment beneath them. If possible, the epaulets should have a recess beneath for Velcro/chosen fixture so as not to create a raised bump or gap effect when applied, resulting in a smooth, flush fit – for level 2/3 cert



Example to illustrate recessed fixture:



Holster:
Sizing guide as to where the holster should end. See visual reference below. We have a solid guide to sizing provided in the cartoon. Too small or too large would be quite noticeable. As you can see it hangs slightly below the hem of the tunic. Perhaps wording like “Holster end approximately 1-3” below hem of tunic” to provide wiggle room, for higher level cert.


 
Officer Boots:
This appears to be copy-paste from Legends Thrawn CRL. For Legends Thrawn we never had an accurate boot reference, for Rebels Thrawn we do (below) and they are shown as flat-top boot only, no Spanish style riding boots. As it stands, specifically flat-top accurate boots are not even listed as a higher level cert. Due to solid evidence, it would be best put as basic approval (and it’s a fair assumption that most IOC members have some form of officer boot already unless this is their first costume build!) so it shouldn’t be undue hardship. If not basic level, it should at least required for a level 2/3 cert.


 
 
Optional Accessories
Gloves were discussed in thread previously, and I am not against being allowed to wear gloves with this costume at all. Making up your hands in body paint, especially with a white uniform, can prove difficult.  However, he has not been seen wearing gloves in new canon media. I would suggest adding (not removing black leather) blue skintone gloves to the accessory list. It’s a common trick with body paint cosplayers, you use nylon tights in the right color and make very form-fitting gloves. Welovecolors.com  has an extensive range, including many blues and teals to match most makeups. This is inexpensive, and can provide a little more visual accuracy, with the added bonus of improved dexterity/being able to use your phone when worn.
 
 

And this is a friendly suggestion for a product not many people know exists, not a CRL commentary: there are half-sclera lenses bigger than standard red contacts but smaller/easier to use/cheaper than full eye scleras. They provide significantly more coverage and look great in photos, without the discomfort of full scleras. You can find them at sclera-lenses.com
 

This is not meant to be an end-all, be-all or “I’m right, you’re not!” post and I definitely want the input of others on my points and/or reference to prove me incorrect. This is just what I see with the reference available, and products or items that I think can help us all be the best Thrawn we can be.
 
 

I'm saying the hair shows this was photoshopped sir, and I'm not trying to be offensive, but from a graphic design AND a photography standpoint (both of which I have enough experience with to be able to see things, even if I can't absolutely replicate them), this picture was photoshopped.  The blue color UNDER the hair is far too even - a filter was ran on it.

I have seen pictures of you made up and they don't look like this.  I think made up your Thrawn looked very good - I'm questioning why we didn't use those pictures and instead used these.