Stormystormtrooper

Imperial belts are a simple thing, for the most part.  From a costuming standpoint, a simple 2" black belt with an imperial buckle has been a mainstay for Imperial costumes since the first movie premiered in 1977.
 
There are been a few changes, however.  The buckle hasn't really changed in all these years (outside some cartoon animated and comic versions), but the belts have seen a few minor changes.   Some CRLs address this, but I'd like more CRLs to capture those changes, in a less haphazard manner.
 
There have been three main types of Imperial belt:
 
1) ANH-style.  These belts were raw leather that had the outer surface dyed black.  The edges of the thick leather, and the undersides, remained raw leather.  The only places this detail is required is the few ANH-specific costumes: ANH Staff Officers, and Army Operations Officer.  ANH ISB should require it, but does not.  (I'd like to fix, that, too)
 
2) ESB-style:  Most of the belts in ESB were re-used from ANH, and the same raw edges are present on many.  There are a few new belts, however, which were apparently dip dyed (as has been more common practice for quite some time), as the edges are all black, as well as the interior (visible from certain angles where the belt loops to fold back on itself to hold the buckle).
 
3) ROTJ: Here's where things changed.  ROTJ's bigger budget brought in new belts.  These belts were fully black, as with the new ESB belts, but also had two grooves on them, one following the edge on top and bottom, running the length of the belts, inscribed about 1/8-1/4" in.  Just to keep things interesting, though, they did pull a few older belts out of the bin, and there are occasional glimpses of the old raw edges here and there on background characters, mostly.  The vast majority is grooved belts, however.
 
Ever since ROTJ, *ALL* Imperial belts have had these grooves.  Rogue One, Mandalorian, Kenobi, Andor, Asohka... all of them.  (Again, I can't speak to every comic or animated costume, but for live action, yes.  If someone wants to research some of those, however, I'd be happen to incorporate them where appropriate)
 
I believe it's time to start formalizing these requirements.  We can move slow... perhaps a Level 2 requirement for grooved belts on all live action costumes that appear ROTJ to date, if not already present.  For ANH/ESB-era costumes, no grooves.  The raw edges can remain a L3 detail, but the grooves are a lot more noticeable and have no place on costumes claiming accuracy to ANH/ESB.  This would also apply to multiple appearance costumes like Bridge Crew: Those seeking L2/3 will need the correct belt for that costume.
 
Again, the belt buckle itself has not significantly changed since the beginning.  So if funds are super tight, a whole new belt is not necessarily required, just the leather part, and the buckle can move back and forth easily enough.
 
At some point, I think grooved belts should become the norm, certainly for Non-Saga era costumes, where non-grooved belts have never been a thing.  But we can start slow, and make this an L2 requirement, for now.
 
So:
 
ANH:  Unspecified at L1.  L2 requires no grooves.  L3 requires raw edges
ESB: Unspecific at L1.  L2 requires no grooves.  L3, edges may be raw or black depending on the specific emulated character.
ROTJ: Unspecific at L1.  L2 requires grooves.
 
All non-saga and other, where appropriate: Unspecific at L1.  L2 requires grooves.
 
I don't ask y'all to take my word for it, however.
 
ANH:
 
ANH Belts:  All raw edges, no grooves.
 
ANH Hallwalker:

 
ANH ISB:

 
ANH Line Officer:

 
ANH Line

 
ANH Scanning Crew:

 
ANH Staff:

 
ANH Staff:

 
ANH Tarkin:

 
ANH TIE: (just another example)

 
ESB:
 
ESB: Mix of Raw and All Black
 
ESB-Needa (smooth, all black)

 
ESB - Needa (smooth, all black)

 
ESB- Piett (raw)

 
ESB- Piett and Line (both raw)

 
ESB- Sheckil (raw)

 
ESB: Unknown Line (indeterminate)

 
ESB-Veers (raw)

 
ROTJ:
 
ROTJ: Mostly grooved, some old raw edge belts
 
ROTJ-ATST (grooves)

 
ROTJ-Gherant (Line) (grooves)

 
ROTJ-Igar (Line) (grooves)

 
ROTJ-Jerjerrod (Line) (grooves)

 
ROTJ-Misc Line Officers (grooves)

 
ROTJ-Navy Trooper (hey!  Raw Edges! blurry but there!)

 
ROTJ-Piett (Line) (grooves)

 
ROTJ-Piett (Line) (grooves)

 
ROTJ: Unknown Bunker Line Officer (grooves)

 
Rogue One:
 
Rogue One: All Grooved
 
R1-Lt Adema (Visual Guide, but verified elsewhere)

 
R1-Cassian Disguise (grooved)

 
R1-Galen Erso

 
R1 Officers

 
R1-Milton Putna (Security Officer)

 
 
R1-General Hurst Romodi

 
R1-Tarkin

 
R1-Lt Chaser

 
R1-Officers

 
The Mandalorian
 
Mandalorian: All Grooved
 
Mandalorian-Elia Kane

 
Mandalorian-Valin Hess

 
Mandalorian-Unidentified Officer

 
Kenobi:
 
Kenobi: All Grooved
 
Kenobi-Tala Durith

 
Kenobi-Security Officer (hard to see but it's there if you zoom)

 
Kenobi Officer

 
Solo: A Star Wars Story
 
Solo: All Grooved
 
Solo- Lt Bolandin:

 
Solo-Capt Munbrin


Andor:
 
Andor: All Grooved
 
Andor-Lt Gorn

 
Andor-Taramin Barcona

 
Andor-Meero

 
Andor-Colonel Petigar

 
Andor-Heert (Attendant)

 
 
Andor-Blevin

 
Andor-Partigaz

 
Andor-Vanis Tigo

 
... and tons of other examples in Andor, but my point is made, I hope?
 
Thoughts?  Let's discuss.

It's not about a language or terminology issue. The definition of Wikipedia is absolutely correct BUT that doesn't mean that there aren't others OR other ways to do it.
I've talked to my tailor and she said that she has folded the fabric and sewn in a thread in the edge of the upper part of the S curve (on the tunic front wich sits on the lower part of the S curve) to stiff and point it out.
 
I've made some more detailed photos of specific areas of the discussed uniform parts from my costume, I hope they help.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
 

All good!  I'm not actually personally aware of other specific methods of doing this, but we always try to be generic, in case someone has another method... we want to accidentally exclude other perfectly viable methods.  It also gets weird when CRLs are auto-translated into other languages, for a world-wide organization like ours.  So I really want to avoid slang descriptions like "stitch in the ditch" (even though they're perfectly accurate), and stick with a more generic description of the goal, however they get there.
 
Sooo... I'll likely leave this open for another week, but just to bring it back around, does anyone actually object this change, added as a new L3 requirement?
 
 
Although again, if someone has a better suggestion on the wording, I'm open to hearing it.

I completely agree! I think that any method of construction works, I apologize if it appeared I was suggesting that this method is the only way. I think this is the construction I've ran into most often, but it's awesome there are some other ways 😃

I completely agree! I think that any method of construction works, I apologize if it appeared I was suggesting that this method is the only way. I think this is the construction I've ran into most often, but it's awesome there are some other ways 😃

Thanks. I believe mine has the stitch done that way too. It's somewhat hidden at the bottom of the edge and as close to the "ditch" as possible.

Yes, that "hidden stitch" is absolutely a correct way to do this.  There's more than one "correct" way to accomplish it, however, so I don't really want to get bogged down into specifying details on construction methods ("only one true way"), rather than the more general description of the goal.  As long as people get there, that's the goal.

Forgive me if I am interpreting this wrong, but here's a picture of one of the hats I'm working on:



The stitching holding the back of the bias tape from the front should be "in the ditch", to make sure it's as invisible as possible.

This video explains the process very well if that helps:
 
 

Forgive me if I am interpreting this wrong, but here's a picture of one of the hats I'm working on:



The stitching holding the back of the bias tape from the front should be "in the ditch", to make sure it's as invisible as possible.

This video explains the process very well if that helps:
 
 

I will give you an update once I have the new photos. Is there a deadline?
 
Maybe I can find similar fabrics to make the sourcing a bit easier.
 
I still have the prototype of the EP3 rankbars wich also Klaus used for making mine. Maybe I could send it to other manofacturers?
 
 

Yes, the way the tunic opens is definitely a construction detail that I wish had been made more clear in the original CRL.  The tunic requirements state:
 
 
I think this is the intent of those lines, but IMO it doesn't come across especially clearly.  I am not sure I want to wade into that level of a re-write, at the moment.  But if someone comes up with a really good way to phrase that, I'm not against it.
 
Your point on the "piping detail" is also absolutely correct... looking at the references, it's the same bias tape construction I was referring to in my post about requiring this in the officer hats.  We should use my language from that update here, as well, since it's a LOT more explicit and clear than "piping detail"... especially because that's not piping.
 
Thanks for the extra reference photos... those are helpful!  A CRL update thread is definitely a good place to add them.

I've also found a few more references floating around the web, I'll post them here, but feel free to let me know if this is the incorrect place.








I found the middle picture specifically interesting, as it appears that the curved area is separate from the main body, at least partially, rather than being a topstich or piping material. (I'm having trouble finding out which is the case in the current CRL, but it seems combined with the main body)








 

Pardon my intrusion, but thank you for opening up this discussion about updating the CRLs. I've been looking into this costume for a while now, and I'm glad to see some clear references images pop up!

I also wanted to highlight a possible change to the Imperial hat. On the CRL, it currently states that there should be "piping detail" on the flaps:



I'm assuming it's referring to the bias tape on the side flaps, but I was wondering if it's wording could be changed to not be confused with the piping on the tunic and/or pants.

I think this also ties in well to your post suggesting an update requiring bias tape wrapped flap edges for level three. While I know this is a minor change, I was thinking it might be helpful for future use.
 

What you're looking for is a full or half break.  This may help: https://propercloth.com/reference/what-is-pant-break/

I responded.

Many people try to use the McCall's M 4745 Civil War pattern for the tunic. I don't recommend it because the shoulders of the sleeve are weird. The instructions are also a little bit difficult to follow.
https://mccallpattern.mccall.com/product-search?ref=M4745
 
Some people use the Butterick B6340 pattern for the jodhpurs trousers.
https://butterick.mccall.com/b6340
 
I suggest using Hawk's pattern from the forum for the tunic. 
http://www.imperialofficer.com/forum/index.php?/topic/4491-imperial-officer-id-sewing-tutorial/
 
If you want to use the McCall's M4745 pattern as a base I recommend following Char Tozard steps. He did a very good job with his uniform.
http://www.imperialofficer.com/forum/index.php?/topic/64-m4745-tunic-skirt/
http://www.imperialofficer.com/forum/index.php?/topic/70-m4745-tunic-pattern-mods-complete/
http://www.imperialofficer.com/forum/index.php?/topic/91-m4745-progress-report/
http://www.imperialofficer.com/forum/index.php?/topic/62-m4745-pattern-mod-code-pockets/

Line Officer Rain Poncho was said to be Black color instead of Olive color base on some picture and info from the designer from the <<Rogue One>> movie.

Jason Womack from what I know is making the poncho and the coat too! I do make some of the ponchos at times. 

I have my olive poncho because I thought it will be matching to my Line suit. LOL and that I can wear it when I go for cons. XD

There are some pattern on how to make the Poncho if you feel like making it yourself.


For the Coat, if you are planing to make it yourself. You can try using this pattern and mode it yourself
For Officer Trenchcoat
https://kwiksew.mccall.com/k4017



if you somehow find this pattern, this is the closest pattern that I can find for the pattern.
Burda 5543  or Vogue V8720




Review design on the vogue pattern:  https://norrisdantaford.com/2018/11/26/vogue-8720-three-ways-to-rock-a-trench-coat/

My bad.  I meant green ponchos.

The description says it’s black - probably an unintentional carryover from the Staff Officer CRL.

I don’t think we have seen a line officer with a poncho yet - only the trench coat.


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Ponchos aren't an option for Line Officers.
Coats are good to go though!

There are multiple Etsy shops carrying rain ponchos - but the shop that has been linked here has both coats and ponchos.


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As theresnoway said here is his shop.
Good reviews and a few on here have this coat
https://www.etsy.com/shop/Stitchintimetailor
Good luck

Watching this tread with great interest...

Hi there ! I just ordered a trench coat from Jason Womack on etsy i have heard good things. If you want to make one im sure some one one here would have the right pictures and things like that to make it. I wish you the best since i cant make crap XD but good luck on your search. God bless

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Also - just to clear up any potential confusion:

The guy in the green uniform and trench coat is the Major - the guy wearing the black uniform Staff Officer is supposed to be Commander Xodell.
The caption doesn't match the order they are standing in.