charlyselo

Being the one who proposed this inclusion, I feel the need to respond to this. No, I am not passionate about the inclusion of FO boots in this CRL. I actually have both types of boots and I never intended to wear FO boots with this costume. But this year the mantra of 'if you can see it on the screen, you can wear it' has appeared in 90% of CRL discussions, so it seemed appropriate to me to point out this possibility.
 
And again since I was the one who proposed this, I would now like to withdraw it. I had planned to make a post about FO boots with adjustment buckle, because there are already several suits where this option is seen -both FO and Non-Saga suits-. I did't want to propose it in the creation of the Military Officer Non-Saga precisely to avoid what is happening here, that we are focusing on a non-essential element and that can perfectly be included later. So in order not to block this thread further, I please ask to move on and return to this discussion on FO boots once the CRL has seen the light, as this really does make me passionate seeing this happens...

Being the one who proposed this inclusion, I feel the need to respond to this. No, I am not passionate about the inclusion of FO boots in this CRL. I actually have both types of boots and I never intended to wear FO boots with this costume. But this year the mantra of 'if you can see it on the screen, you can wear it' has appeared in 90% of CRL discussions, so it seemed appropriate to me to point out this possibility.
 
And again since I was the one who proposed this, I would now like to withdraw it. I had planned to make a post about FO boots with adjustment buckle, because there are already several suits where this option is seen -both FO and Non-Saga suits-. I did't want to propose it in the creation of the Military Officer Non-Saga precisely to avoid what is happening here, that we are focusing on a non-essential element and that can perfectly be included later. So in order not to block this thread further, I please ask to move on and return to this discussion on FO boots once the CRL has seen the light, as this really does make me passionate seeing this happens...

I have been reading your comments, I know you are still coming up to speed with how we are doing things.
 
We have made the straight pants and Chelsea boots as optional variants.  Canonically there never was a social officer or a science officer.  There was simply an officer wearing straight pants and Chelsea boots per the uniform of the day where they were stationed.  If you have served in the military you would recognize that the CLR that we just issued for the Naval and Army officers in green is set up this way.
 
As to the First Order style boots being permitted, I have talked about the two principles at play.  We deal with principles because it is important to remove personality and preference from these decisions and serve the broadest number of members here.  Too often detachments try to improve the quality of costumes by making changes to the level 1 details.  That is not the place for it.  It should be done to the level 2 and level 3 areas.  These changes don't elevate standards so much as they block entry for many members.  We are seeing more comments from garrison officers speaking here or messaging me directly.  
 
As for the principles, the first is we allow what we see.  We have no less than 4 recorded instances of officers wearing these First Order style boots.  This is a very easy precedent to follow because it is extremely clear cut.  You see it? You can do it.

The other principle is called allowing only the "idealized" version the costume.  This principle is more esoteric and has no hard line.  You see we do not make Star Wars in the legion, we only emulate it.  LFL makes Star Wars.  So we say that these boots were all they could find, but they really should be like a black unadorned English riding boot, not a first order boot.  What is the threshold to allow it to be included?  2 boots?  4?  8? 10?  What is the level and when is that level not arbitrary by the decision maker?

I am not for arbitrary.  And I am for full transparency.  And I am for members in the majority of the times knowing what they can and cannot do before they even speak with us.  After getting more people engaged, it is the most important thing as to why I have come to this office.
 
If a member has a First Order costume and wants to do a security services uniform and they reuse their FO boots....I am ok with it.  We can word that so it isn't prohibitive of them doing it.  We can still hold the ideal for level 2 and 3 as the English leather riding boots.  But no one is going to call the person not screen accurate... because there it is, on the screen.
And it gets that member trooping.
 
And canonically we call these First Order boots because we first saw them in The Force Awakens.   But we have now seen them in Solo and Rogue One.  They are reminiscent to the cuffs on boots found on Republic officers in The Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith.  This is part of the reason why we are separating these CRLs from the OT CRLs.  The OT will not be touched.  These new CRLs will go where LFL takes us.  And I think that is the right direction.

There actually is an existing CRL for that uniform, the Imperial Officer: Social. What bob suggests here with chelsea boots is just a reoganization in a single CRL separated by tabs of some pre-existing CRLs.

Another thing is the discussion about FO boots, that whould be a new inclussion as an option…


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@Peterpangood news.  The LMOs have voted and will allow this to move forward.  We will be submitting the CRL to them soon.

In general, I agree with the text...
 
About rank bars, I'm with the opinion of only allow those seen on screen, that is, a single row 3 reds / 3 ambers, or a single row 6 reds. With that in mind, I would remove all references of double rank bars, free choice for tiles combination, etc and move the line that limits the two combinations from level 3 section to basic section.
 
And no, no code cylinders for this costume as none has been seen for it.
 
Except for this two points, I think the text is perfect!

@charlyselo I admire you finding this.  I have looked at Lieutenant Punta for 5 years now and this is the first time I have ever noticed this about his boots.  

And you are right, we need to have clear guidelines for what we accept or not based on evidence found.  

We have two principles underway right now:

One is if we see it, it should be allowed.  That goes for the film and in other visual mediums like reference books and the like.

The other principle is "intent".  Meaning that this was a background character never meant to be wearing the what we would call a "hero" kit.  That is why his boots are reused First Order boots.  

Both of these principles have been applied across ALL detachments in a case by case basis.  It is why some things are not considered particularly with stromtroopers.  Their CRLs lean more to the idealized.

Then there are other CRLs that pick up every variation and nuance and make sure it is an option in the CRL.
 
This is something we need to consider because I DO believe in precedent with future CRLs.  It should not be our "whim", but a member should be able to look at something and with a reasonable degree of certainty know if it would be accepted or not.

There is another one and this is what I have been talking to the CRL team about.

My preference is to be principled in our decisions.  Even if it leads us to do things we may not want to do or not popular.

And my general principle with CRLs is if you can point to it on screen or an official reference from LFL, it should be allowed in a CRL.  
When we operate from a principle basis, everyone knows what will be able to happen before the CRL team lays eyes on it.  
And to introduce preference.... not sure where that will end.  How many officers do we need to see with this boot before we allow it? 2? 5? 10?  
I generally believe that if we see one, it should be allowed.  This here is the 3rd I have seen.  

What do the rest of you say?
Understand I am not just looking for what people's preferences are, but what could be used to establish a fair precedent.

Quick search at starwarsscreencaps when at work, I found this one during the battle of Scariff. Yes, it's not a very good reference, even not clear -at least for me- if it's a green or black uniform, but we can see the top stitching from FO boots.


 
I will try to find better references later this afternoon at home

Quick search at starwarsscreencaps when at work, I found this one during the battle of Scariff. Yes, it's not a very good reference, even not clear -at least for me- if it's a green or black uniform, but we can see the top stitching from FO boots.


 
I will try to find better references later this afternoon at home

Love it! When we discussed the Social Officer CRL, I suggested add it as a new version for the old Staff Officer CRL. I’m glad to see this is finnally happening

I would like to suggest the addition of First Order boots, with or without adjustment strap and zipper.




Of course I re-volunteer as model for straight pants/chelsea boots version. Also I can do the helmet + poncho and helmet + armor once I finished this last one.


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Love it! When we discussed the Social Officer CRL, I suggested add it as a new version for the old Staff Officer CRL. I’m glad to see this is finnally happening

I would like to suggest the addition of First Order boots, with or without adjustment strap and zipper.




Of course I re-volunteer as model for straight pants/chelsea boots version. Also I can do the helmet + poncho and helmet + armor once I finished this last one.


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I was asked to create a new thread to that would detail the changes that will be made to the former Staff Officer (Non-Saga).
 
It will be getting the same treatment as the the Imperial military officer did, consolidating some CRLs and allowing greater functionality and options for members to use this costume.
 
It will have straight pants and Chelsea boots as an option. It will allow face characters including those that do not have hats as long as a reference can be provided. It will be the only black uniform to have a trench coat and/or poncho. It will have a broader option of ranks available. The Navy Trooper Helmet will be an option with this uniform. The entire CRL will be renamed from Imperial Staff officer to Imperial Security Services (Non-Saga) as the production refers to these uniforms enlisted and officer as the security services.  
 
If a member is able to do this uniform with the body armor from the Coronet Spaceport scene from Solo, that will be included as optional gear and another version.

Reference photos will follow and the write up will be available here to be reviewed before submission to the LMO office.

As a personal sidenote:
 
IMO the IOC does a damn good this year in focussing on making CRLs for the new costumes. That's what IMO is the main reason for detachments: Creating CRLs out of shared reference material. The "rest" (e.g. merch) is a nice extra to cultivate the corporate feeling. Speaking of references, I agree with Rob: If you see something on screen, you should be able to clear it. There are CRLs out there für costumes that have only seconds of screentime (Bazine Natal, Zuckuss, Mechanical Crew,...) and people have tons of fun buildiung and wearing them (just look up "Rapid Reaction cleunup Crew" on Instagram). It's the core of the 501st in the first place: Building and wearing screen accurate costumes. Of course charity became also a big part of our club, but it's not the reason we exist and shouldn't intervene what CRLs we create.

I do not think what you are saying matches your actions.  Your profile picture proudly shows a poncho on a security services uniform.  The people that wore this uniform with the poncho had no speaking roles and together (even with the scenes in the background of Solo) have no more than a few seconds of screen time and only in the background.  And yet it is one of the most popular accessories in recent years.  And rightfully so. 
 
It is the policy of this detachment that any licensed material relevant to the IOC is fair game to be created.  If you want to limit the scope to what you think should be allowed, you have the opportunity to run in February.  If you want to make a platform of the ideas you think should happen in the detachment, you can do so in another thread in the forums.  @Eagle you can continue in this thread if you have something relevant to the CRL, but not outside of that.

The 501st is first and foremost a costuming club.  The detachments primarily exist for the creation of costumes and the curating of the details.  Everything else we do is in order to foster community.  Some people are here for the Star Wars, some just for the costuming, some just for the community, some like me personally are here for all three, but I will not malign the motivations for people being here unless it interferes with another members right to enjoy their reason for being here.  That is all I am going to say on this topic for this thread.

Back to the details.

Thank you.
 
And that's exactly why the rank bars were open to discussion.
 
I agree with your opinion, but I'm second in command... so if the DL insists, thems the rules.  Otherwise, if he's open to either case, we can see what people think and I'll make the call from there.

In general, I agree with the text...
 
About rank bars, I'm with the opinion of only allow those seen on screen, that is, a single row 3 reds / 3 ambers, or a single row 6 reds. With that in mind, I would remove all references of double rank bars, free choice for tiles combination, etc and move the line that limits the two combinations from level 3 section to basic section.
 
And no, no code cylinders for this costume as none has been seen for it.
 
Except for this two points, I think the text is perfect!

@Peterpan  We are focused on this right now trying to clean up the language of the CRL.
 
Hope to have some news in a few days.

That is beautiful!

@Peterpan  I think this is fully written and referenced.  We simply need to submit to the LMO office for review.  @kman and I will be speaking to you shortly about that.

Thank you!  Our CRL team will follow up with this.  I have always wanted to see this uniform done!

Hi guys,
 
i think this is the correct place to discuss the current crl :).
 
i noticed the following points (refer to my wip)
1.
"Tunic has top-stitching in these specific areas:
Approximately 1" (2,54mm) from the outer edge of the double breast/double back
its a tipping error - 1" is 25,4 mm or 2,54cm"  
2.
"The back of the tunic has princess seams that run vertically and turn outward to intersect the arm-hole seam at the vertical center.“
 
 
3.
"Tunic has top-stitching in these specific areas:
Approximately 1/4" (6mm) from the outer edges of the double breast/double back" Comparing this with screenshots 1/4" could be a bit to much and maybe 2-3mm (=0,08-0,12") would be better.


best regards
 

A few months ago, in January to be more exact, I made a rain poncho, guiding me a little about Angelus' work and screenshots of the film.
I made a tutorial for the forum of Spanish Garrison, and now I will be translating it here little by little. I hope you like it

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Fabric: Black nylon 100% waterproof. 3 meters x 1.5 meters.

The rain poncho consist in three main parts: yoke and collar(blue), cape (black) and breastplate(green).

Let's go with the first one.
 
Cape
 
Cape is the most easy part. Consist of two rectangles, wich length is the size from the neck to the upper part of the boots, and width comes from the same point of the neck to the top of your fingers, putting your arms cross.

Then you have to sew it together only on the red line, a little bit more of the half.

 
Yoke and collar
 
This part consist in another four parts: back, front right side, front left side and collar.
 
Back:

I give you mi sizes as reference. It's based on a XL size from CosplaySky suit.

On the last image, the red line correspond to the seams need to be visible, about a 1" from the border.
 
Next, the front left side (from the wearer's point of view) consist in two pieces:



H.2 and H.3 need to be sew it together at the middle. H.3 will be on top of the front right piece. H.4 is the front right piece:

Now that's how it should look:


Grey part from H.4 will be hidden by H.3
Again, visible seams are required. Red are 1" from the border, blue are 1/2":

 
Bib

So sorry if 'bib' it's not the correct name for this piece.
 
The bib is quite simple to make. It consists of four sections, namely: two symmetrical sections, one inch wide, which will go on each side of the bib. A four-inch section on the left side, seen from the front, which will contain the pocket for the dosimeters, and finally a fourth central section.



 
The two outer sections will go down to the edge of our suit jacket, while the other two inner sections will be two inches longer. Remember, once again, to leave seam allowances when cutting the fabric.
 
The pocket in my case I made it four inches deep, enough to contain the dosimeters (at least the ones I have, manufactured by Malakili). For this I simply cut that section with the calculated length, plus twice the depth of the pocket, that is, eight inches. In this way simply by folding we get the pocket.
 
The fourth and last section, the central one, is the simplest. Simply calculate the width to fill in the full width of the shoulder / neck part.
 
And finally the visible seams. Across the bottom, seam to approximately a quarter of an inch to finish off the edge. Another quarter-inch seam in the center section over the pocket section. And most importantly, two cross seams in the pocket section. One inch horizontally from the edge of the pocket, and another vertically one inch to the left of the section. In this way we will "divide" the pocket in two, one of an inch almost useless and the other of three inches where the dosimeters will go. Earlier I said that this section will be four inches, although we now have a pocket really three inches wide. Keep in mind that a pocket less than two and a half inches wide we can have trouble putting two dosimeters.
 


 
Another measure that I have forgotten to comment on before, is that the pocket will be approximately two inches from the top edge.
 
And another thing to keep in mind when joining the three parts of the poncho, is that you have to form a "sandwich" in the following order from outside to inside: shoulders, cape and bib. I will leave some photos where I hope you can see well what I mean.





 
 
 

A few months ago, in January to be more exact, I made a rain poncho, guiding me a little about Angelus' work and screenshots of the film.
I made a tutorial for the forum of Spanish Garrison, and now I will be translating it here little by little. I hope you like it

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Fabric: Black nylon 100% waterproof. 3 meters x 1.5 meters.

The rain poncho consist in three main parts: yoke and collar(blue), cape (black) and breastplate(green).

Let's go with the first one.
 
Cape
 
Cape is the most easy part. Consist of two rectangles, wich length is the size from the neck to the upper part of the boots, and width comes from the same point of the neck to the top of your fingers, putting your arms cross.

Then you have to sew it together only on the red line, a little bit more of the half.

 
Yoke and collar
 
This part consist in another four parts: back, front right side, front left side and collar.
 
Back:

I give you mi sizes as reference. It's based on a XL size from CosplaySky suit.

On the last image, the red line correspond to the seams need to be visible, about a 1" from the border.
 
Next, the front left side (from the wearer's point of view) consist in two pieces:



H.2 and H.3 need to be sew it together at the middle. H.3 will be on top of the front right piece. H.4 is the front right piece:

Now that's how it should look:


Grey part from H.4 will be hidden by H.3
Again, visible seams are required. Red are 1" from the border, blue are 1/2":

 
Bib

So sorry if 'bib' it's not the correct name for this piece.
 
The bib is quite simple to make. It consists of four sections, namely: two symmetrical sections, one inch wide, which will go on each side of the bib. A four-inch section on the left side, seen from the front, which will contain the pocket for the dosimeters, and finally a fourth central section.



 
The two outer sections will go down to the edge of our suit jacket, while the other two inner sections will be two inches longer. Remember, once again, to leave seam allowances when cutting the fabric.
 
The pocket in my case I made it four inches deep, enough to contain the dosimeters (at least the ones I have, manufactured by Malakili). For this I simply cut that section with the calculated length, plus twice the depth of the pocket, that is, eight inches. In this way simply by folding we get the pocket.
 
The fourth and last section, the central one, is the simplest. Simply calculate the width to fill in the full width of the shoulder / neck part.
 
And finally the visible seams. Across the bottom, seam to approximately a quarter of an inch to finish off the edge. Another quarter-inch seam in the center section over the pocket section. And most importantly, two cross seams in the pocket section. One inch horizontally from the edge of the pocket, and another vertically one inch to the left of the section. In this way we will "divide" the pocket in two, one of an inch almost useless and the other of three inches where the dosimeters will go. Earlier I said that this section will be four inches, although we now have a pocket really three inches wide. Keep in mind that a pocket less than two and a half inches wide we can have trouble putting two dosimeters.
 


 
Another measure that I have forgotten to comment on before, is that the pocket will be approximately two inches from the top edge.
 
And another thing to keep in mind when joining the three parts of the poncho, is that you have to form a "sandwich" in the following order from outside to inside: shoulders, cape and bib. I will leave some photos where I hope you can see well what I mean.





 
 
 

A few months ago, in January to be more exact, I made a rain poncho, guiding me a little about Angelus' work and screenshots of the film.
I made a tutorial for the forum of Spanish Garrison, and now I will be translating it here little by little. I hope you like it

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Fabric: Black nylon 100% waterproof. 3 meters x 1.5 meters.

The rain poncho consist in three main parts: yoke and collar(blue), cape (black) and breastplate(green).

Let's go with the first one.
 
Cape
 
Cape is the most easy part. Consist of two rectangles, wich length is the size from the neck to the upper part of the boots, and width comes from the same point of the neck to the top of your fingers, putting your arms cross.

Then you have to sew it together only on the red line, a little bit more of the half.

 
Yoke and collar
 
This part consist in another four parts: back, front right side, front left side and collar.
 
Back:

I give you mi sizes as reference. It's based on a XL size from CosplaySky suit.

On the last image, the red line correspond to the seams need to be visible, about a 1" from the border.
 
Next, the front left side (from the wearer's point of view) consist in two pieces:



H.2 and H.3 need to be sew it together at the middle. H.3 will be on top of the front right piece. H.4 is the front right piece:

Now that's how it should look:


Grey part from H.4 will be hidden by H.3
Again, visible seams are required. Red are 1" from the border, blue are 1/2":

 
Bib

So sorry if 'bib' it's not the correct name for this piece.
 
The bib is quite simple to make. It consists of four sections, namely: two symmetrical sections, one inch wide, which will go on each side of the bib. A four-inch section on the left side, seen from the front, which will contain the pocket for the dosimeters, and finally a fourth central section.



 
The two outer sections will go down to the edge of our suit jacket, while the other two inner sections will be two inches longer. Remember, once again, to leave seam allowances when cutting the fabric.
 
The pocket in my case I made it four inches deep, enough to contain the dosimeters (at least the ones I have, manufactured by Malakili). For this I simply cut that section with the calculated length, plus twice the depth of the pocket, that is, eight inches. In this way simply by folding we get the pocket.
 
The fourth and last section, the central one, is the simplest. Simply calculate the width to fill in the full width of the shoulder / neck part.
 
And finally the visible seams. Across the bottom, seam to approximately a quarter of an inch to finish off the edge. Another quarter-inch seam in the center section over the pocket section. And most importantly, two cross seams in the pocket section. One inch horizontally from the edge of the pocket, and another vertically one inch to the left of the section. In this way we will "divide" the pocket in two, one of an inch almost useless and the other of three inches where the dosimeters will go. Earlier I said that this section will be four inches, although we now have a pocket really three inches wide. Keep in mind that a pocket less than two and a half inches wide we can have trouble putting two dosimeters.
 


 
Another measure that I have forgotten to comment on before, is that the pocket will be approximately two inches from the top edge.
 
And another thing to keep in mind when joining the three parts of the poncho, is that you have to form a "sandwich" in the following order from outside to inside: shoulders, cape and bib. I will leave some photos where I hope you can see well what I mean.