Tarkin99933
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Posts posted by Tarkin99933
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4 hours ago, chicken45 said:
@Tarkin99933 I hate to ask, but can you please take new pictures of the hat, tunic, trousers, and yourself wearing it to all have similar lighting?
I can see us getting getting called out and rejected for that.
Yes sure, give me some days.
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It's not about a language or terminology issue. The definition of Wikipedia is absolutely correct BUT that doesn't mean that there aren't others OR other ways to do it.
I've talked to my tailor and she said that she has folded the fabric and sewn in a thread in the edge of the upper part of the S curve (on the tunic front wich sits on the lower part of the S curve) to stiff and point it out.
I've made some more detailed photos of specific areas of the discussed uniform parts from my costume, I hope they help.
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16 hours ago, kman said:
Technically it's not merely a seam, it is a separate panel of fabric, folded over the top. Referred to as bias tape. There's a discussion of the techniques used to make this, in the other active thread right now, regarding the CRLs with Imperial Hats.
Or we phrase it like:
There is a seam that seperates a 1cm or 0.4 inch wide panel made of the same fabric that sits on the top of each side flap.
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16 hours ago, kman said:
There's no piping, that's the thing. It's just the edge of the fabric opening. The top half is entirely separate from the bottom half, it's not just a seam with some piping to show a separation... it actually IS separate parts. The left side of the tunic includes the top part, and that flap (with the front of the collar attached) closes over the bottom part, which is part of the right side of the tunic. (wearer's perspective)
As you know I have 2 more uniforms with a smiliar piping those 2 have an additional matte black satin fabric to point out the S curve (where the piping has been sewn in) but just because the EP 3 uniform tunic doesn't have an additional piece of fabric to point out the S piping doesn't mean that there hasn't been sewn in a piping.
So we couls phrase it like:
"The upper part of the front tunic piping is seperated from the lower part and sits above the lower middle part of the tunic piping. The piping is sewn in the upper part of the piping to point out the S curve."
I will upload detailed shots of the tunic in the next days...
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On 5/26/2024 at 6:21 AM, kman said:
Yes, the way the tunic opens is definitely a construction detail that I wish had been made more clear in the original CRL. The tunic requirements state:
I think this is the intent of those lines, but IMO it doesn't come across especially clearly. I am not sure I want to wade into that level of a re-write, at the moment. But if someone comes up with a really good way to phrase that, I'm not against it.
Your point on the "piping detail" is also absolutely correct... looking at the references, it's the same bias tape construction I was referring to in my post about requiring this in the officer hats. We should use my language from that update here, as well, since it's a LOT more explicit and clear than "piping detail"... especially because that's not piping.
Thanks for the extra reference photos... those are helpful! A CRL update thread is definitely a good place to add them.
Could you point out what you exactly mean by the tunic opening detail?
Maybe we could add a new L2 requirement regarding the piping detail?
"The upper part of the front tunic piping is seperated from the lower part and sits above the lower middle part of the tunic piping."
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18 hours ago, Stormystormtrooper said:
Pardon my intrusion, but thank you for opening up this discussion about updating the CRLs. I've been looking into this costume for a while now, and I'm glad to see some clear references images pop up!
I also wanted to highlight a possible change to the Imperial hat. On the CRL, it currently states that there should be "piping detail" on the flaps:
I'm assuming it's referring to the bias tape on the side flaps, but I was wondering if it's wording could be changed to not be confused with the piping on the tunic and/or pants.
I think this also ties in well to your post suggesting an update requiring bias tape wrapped flap edges for level three. While I know this is a minor change, I was thinking it might be helpful for future use.
If you mean the seam that runs approximately 1 cm or 0.4 inch from the edge of each side flap.
We could phrase it:
There is a seam running 1cm or 0.4 inch from the edge of each side flap.
But I think this should be a basic requirement, it doesn't make sense to me that this is a L2 requirement.
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23 hours ago, kman said:
Yes, please, I would like to collect as many opinions as possible. Ideally, I would like to be able to use language that will permit a range of colors of this, but still within the spectrum of accuracy. Dark green, in the color that the current tunic photo appears to be, because of the lighting, is nowhere near correct:
This doesn't even look like the same tunic as the top CRL photo, due to the color. If you could take some photos that show it's true colors better, that would be perfect, thank you! (and the hat and the pants, also, please)
Then we just need to figure out how to phrase it, to include colors between the greenish and brownish tones, through the gray.
It sounds like you fully agree with the rest of my proposal, with the possible exception of the rank bar. While I personally agree with you that I would prefer to have the very unique layout be a basic level requirement, unfortunately, while Klaus is a great vendor, one single source of purchase is not a great look for a worldwide organization. If there were at least 1-2 more vendors out there, spread out more geographically, I might be more inclined to consider that. But in the interests of inclusion, I think we should continue to allow more flat rank bars at the basic approval level, and keep the more accurate rank bars for Level 2. Much like with regular Imperial Officer rank bars, we will allow the simple acrylic chips for basic approval, but require real pushbuttons for higher level approvals. And those pushbuttons are MUCH easier to come by, worldwide, than this specific rank bar. Anyone super enthusiastic about this costume is likely to want to be more accurate anyway, and at least with this change, they are better pointed in the right direction.
I will give you an update once I have the new photos. Is there a deadline?
Maybe I can find similar fabrics to make the sourcing a bit easier.
I still have the prototype of the EP3 rankbars wich also Klaus used for making mine. Maybe I could send it to other manofacturers?
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17 hours ago, kman said:
I've recently been undertaking a review of IOC CRLs, trying to get them updated based on real world use by applicants and GMLs, which is where theory and intent often clashes against the cold reality of large numbers of differing interpretations LOL
Up first, just because it worked out that way, is this "Republic/Imperial Fleet Officer" CRL:
https://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:ID_Fleet_Officer
I am preparing to make the changes and updates to this CRL, as listed below. I would like to open up my plans for discussion and feedback first, however, so others can weigh in and I'm not doing this in secret on my own. So this is your chance to speak up if there's anything else that could be improved, or if you have reasons to disagree with any of the changes.
Original CRL development thread is here:
A couple of changes applicable to several categories, first:
Fabric & Color: The fabric is currently simply listed as (from the Hat portion):
"Olive/Grey fabric is a medium weight suiting material matching the pants and tunic.
Gabardine style weave is most accurate."
The original fabric was far more gray than green. Following are photos of the screen-used costume from Episode III, provided by Cedric in the original CRL development thread:
I could use some suggestions on how to word the coloration and fabric, better than it currently is.
We need to clarify the color to be more gray than green, because "olive/gray" has been widely misinterpreted. Looks like the originals were VERY gray, mixed with some browns, in a textured twill fabric. It shows up a little greenish under some lighting conditions, although that was not the intended appearance. It is not the usual Feldgrau stuff we are so used to seeing, and it's not a cavalry twill.
The current CRL model shows more greenish than I would like, unfortunately, which is not really what is represented on screen.
I took some crops from 4K screenshots, so these are as good as it is going to get about how the costumes are intended to look, onscreen, without any added coloration from screen calibration, etc. To my eye, the intent that these appear gray, much like the final photo above, seems pretty clear. The brownish/greenish tint in the photos above is coming from the warm lighting above them. The true color is better shown in the final photo, which has very different lighting and looks a LOT more gray... as we see below:
Next, regarding fabric, take good look at the closeups of the hat and rank bar, in that first batch of photos above. The fabric type used is technically a "marl wool twill". "Marl" simply means multiple colors of thread combined to give that textured, mottled appearance. From a distance they look like a single color, but up closer, you can clearly see multiple colors twisting together (not mixed), in addition to the twill weave lines. (those diagonal lines on the fabric are characteristic of "twill"). This, of course, complicates the color discussion a bit, since no single color is exactly right... it's a combination of two different colors in one fabric, and they don't mix completely and uniformly the way a single dye lot fabric would.
Making everything worse, the CRL photos for the main three individual soft parts are, unfortunately, VERY dark, and make the tunic look a LOT more "dark green" than it actually is. (Comparing it to the full CRL model photo at the top, which has better lighting). I would like to get some updated photos of the hat, tunic, and pants with better lighting, so they can at least reflect what they truly are, more accurately to reality than the current ones.
Tunic: The tunic has a vent (split) in the center of the back skirt. This is very visible in the CRL image, but not mentioned at all in the text. As this is part of the basic tunic construction, this should be a basic level requirement.
Pants: Looking over the screen used costume photos again, in the closeup of the pants, you can clearly see there is a bead or trim line going down the outside of the jodphur curves, along the seam. This should be added as a Level 2 requirement.
Boots: The screen used costume photos show the boot cuffs very clearly, which is really nice. One thing I definitely noticed is the cuff has grooved lines all around the edges (much like ROTJ and later-style Imperial belts). This is not mentioned in the CRL, and should be. At a minimum it should be a Level 2 detail. I suggest: "Cuffs have a groove inset, following along the top and bottom edges." Oh, and somehow there is a L3 requirement for the boot cuff to be Maroon in color? That's obviously a mistake of some sort, and it needs to be deleted entirely.
Belts: Similarly, as I just mentioned, the belt also has the grooved lines shared by all Imperial belts from ROTJ forward. Level 2 requirement, for sure. Also, a mistake needs to be corrected: The belt does require a belt loop, as the CRL indicated, but there should only be one belt loop, to the left of the buckle (wearer's perspective), not on both sides as it says now.
Gloves: The gloves shown in the costume exhibit, and clearly worn by all the officers above, are very long. See the last two screencaps, above. The CRL does note "Gloves cover wrist." which is good, but it's more than that. I suggest we add a L2 requirement: "Gloves extend sufficiently past the wrist that no skin is exposed when arms are stretched forward."Rank bar: The screen-used rank badges have raised areas on the bars, between the buttons. This is shown in the current CRL Rank bar entry. I think those raised areas should be added, but perhaps only as a Level 3 detail, since that will be difficult (but not impossible, clearly) to source. Also, I would like include a photo of the double-stacked rank bar, if we can get one, since that's the version seen more commonly than the single row, and it's quite unique, with it's differing widths for the two rows. Additionally, this line "The mounted tiles are slightly horizontally curved upwards in the middle." in level 2 should be deleted entirely. There is no horizontal upwards curve present. They're quite flat and normal, in that regard.
@Tarkin99933 As you were the originator of this CRL, I'd love your feedback in particular.
Hello @kman
I have some questions first. Is it right that you want to update the CRL texts on this CRL and new photos made in better light conditions?
If so, I'm going to make better photos because I'm the originator and I would like to keep it this way.
Fabric color: From my point of view olive/grey is still correct. Keep in mind that a fabric color, especially if it's a "marl wool mix twill", depends on the viewers perception, the camera, the lightning, color grading, scene, location etc. A fabric can apear grey in one scene but in the other scene it apears olive or green. This causes unnecessarly long discussions wich could be avoided if we deal reasonably with this topic. (Wich we do, no offence of course
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Tunic vent: I totally agree that the vent should a basic level arquirement.
Trousers bead/trim: I agree that the bead/trim on the outside of the jodhpur courves should a level 2 requirement.
Boots: I agree that the grooved lines at the edges of the boot cuffs should be a level 2 requirement. The maroon color is a mistake and can be deleted entirely.
Belt: Yes the belt grooves should be a level 2 requirement. There is only one loop on the left side of the buckle yes.
Gloves: That's a good idea. It would give a level 2 requirement a better sense.
Rank bar: I think that the raised areas between the red/blue tiles should be a basic level requirement. It's easy to get them from Klaus Windstosser (Klaus' Frässstüberl on Facebook), so it's not difficult to source them. He made mine.
I will make a photo of the double stacked rank bar.
The line about the curved thing can be deleted yes.
https://www.facebook.com/klausfraesstueberl?locale=de_DE
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=832821535307869&set=pcb.832823635307659&locale=de_DE
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1 minute ago, kman said:
Thanks, I agree, overall.
Oh, one last thing: The CRL states the boot cuff should be Maroon color, as a Level 3 detail. This... seems like an error, and that should simply be deleted entirely?
I don't know where that came from... I think it should be deleted, it's just black.
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1 hour ago, kman said:
Whoops, sorry, the Feldgrau question was a completely different costume situation, not related to this at all.
Thank you for those reference pics! Are those from a screen-used costume display?
I see a couple more details that could be added to the CRL, looking at those photos. For the pants, there appears to be either trim or a seam down the outside edge. Seems like a good Level 2 requirement. Similarly, for the cuff on the boots, we should note the inset groove that follows the outer edges, either at L1 or L2. And the belt has the ROTJ-style grooves at the edges, as well.
I don't see a clear indication of the vent, however, either in that screen used costume (maybe, but it's not clear from that angle), nor do I see it in the screenshots above?
Also, now that I remember the issues: The belt portion of the CRL calls for this:
"There is one loop on the belt each side of the buckle."
But the CRL photo shows no second loop on the other side, just the one. I don't see it in the costume display, either. Is that a mistake in the CRL that should be corrected?
Yes it is a screen used costume.
You can add the trim/seam on the outside of the jodhpur trousers as a L2 requirement.
The groove on the boot cuffs should be a L2 requirement.
It's not easy to spot the vent I know, but it's there.
There should just be one loop on the left side of the belt.
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6 hours ago, kman said:
What is the source for this tunic requirement?
"There is a vent that runs from belt height to the bottom on the back of the tunic."
Most of the photos from the first couple of pages are not appearing anymore. Can those links be fixed, or is it just me? We need to maintain a long-term record of these builds, here in the forums.
I've reuploaded the reference photos again. There is a vent at the back.
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57 minutes ago, kman said:
Biggest problem is the back of the tunic. The CRL photo shows a very clearly vented back panel, below the belt. The text description makes no mention of this (and should... I think?). I would like to determine which is correct, because the applicant's tunic is solid, below the belt, one unbroken panel of fabric.
Dialing in the color and confirming it is intended to be the same Feldgrau as the green officer uniforms would be helpful, as well.
I've reuploaded the refernce photos again already.
There is a vent at the back and the fabric is a marl wool mix twill and not feldgrau fabric used for other officer uniforms.
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5 hours ago, kman said:
What is the source for this tunic requirement?
"There is a vent that runs from belt height to the bottom on the back of the tunic."
Most of the photos from the first couple of pages are not appearing anymore. Can those links be fixed, or is it just me? We need to maintain a long-term record of these builds, here in the forums.
Hi
Give me some days and I will fix that.
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@chicken45 Great thank you
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22 hours ago, kman said:
@Tarkin99933 Is there any chance you can provide updated links to your photos? All the pictures in this thread seem to be dead. I'm trying to do some research on this costume as an applicant has submitted one based on the CRL, and there are some differences from the main CRL photo that I'm trying to determine whether they are just wrong, or if there is any reference for it.
If you know of other threads where this costume is discussed, that would be helpful as well.
Hello
Give me some days and I will see what I can do. What kind of differences are between his costume and my CRL? (Just curious)
Best Regards
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Hello guys
I just wanted to give you an update.
Due to carneval season we need more time to fix the tunic and make it right.
I'll let you know when I know more.
Best,
Cedric
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Great Thank you :-)
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Republic Naval Officer Clone Wars Season 7 Proposal
in New CRLs - Completed
Posted