[Staff officer blaster]

I'm probably stating the obvious here, but that's a DH17 Blaster in the above picture, not an E11. Though if you watch the entire scene, it wasn't holstered, as he picks it up off the console. So an argument could be made that it's not standard issue for Staff Officers. I believe this is why it's optional in the CRL for ANH Staff Officers.

 

[Warrant Officer / Staff Officer / Bridge Crew gloves]

3 hours ago, bjsavage7 said:

Very nice work, Scott! When I get the chance to thoroughly read through this, I'll toss in my 2 cent.  

 

Thank you, sir, but I can't take all the credit though. Patricia and Eric, among others, were crucial contributors with all the pictures and analysis they provided.

 

[Was the empire really evil ?]

Not going to get into a philosophical debate here, but I'd point out that if you've played SWTOR, or are familiar with the EU (even though Disney de-canonized it), and other non-movie sources, the Rebellion did some pretty awful (evil) stuff themselves during the millennia of conflict against the Empire and its various incarnations.

[Names I've been called while Trooping...]

I did my first Troop with MWG back on a hot July day for what was affectionately called the "Death March" by my Garrison - a 4th of July parade in Bartlett, IL. We had a fairly large turnout - approximately 30 of us - with Darth Vader and Imperial Officers, Bridge Crew, and Reserve Pilots escorting him, and the Stormtroopers bringing up the rear. Somewhere along the parade route, one of the parents was pointing us out to his kids and called Vader's escorts his "minions". I thought that was pretty amusing, or perhaps it was the baking heat in an all-black costume that was making me a bit giddy.

 

I'd therefore like to propose that we add a caption of "minions" to all IOC costumes in the CRL.  (just kidding, of course)

[Warrant Officer / Staff Officer / Bridge Crew gloves]

I just returned last week from a military deployment, and wanted to follow up on this thread to finalize the CRL update proposal, and to find out what are the next steps or if nothing further is required from us. For the sake of clarity, here are the summary of changes (along with related CRL entries for completeness) based on our discussion and research:

 

 

Black Gauntlet Gloves (Staff Officer, Black)   (no corrections noted) For 501st approval: Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, (normal leather grain/texture/lines are acceptable) fitted gauntlet style. No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching. Three straight lines, on the back of the hand (that match some references), are optional.

For level two certification (if applicable): Gloves are made of leather.

For level three certification (if applicable): Gauntlets slightly flair-out, upward from the wrist to the mid-forearm.   ---------   Black Gauntlet Gloves (Warrant Officer) For 501st approval: Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, fitted gauntlet length. No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching are permitted. For level two certification (if applicable): Gloves are made of leather. ANH ROTJ warrant officers shall not wear gauntlet style gloves. ROTJ warrant officers may wear gauntlet style gloves.   Gloves (Warrant Officer: ESB and ROTJ)   (Should this whole section be included in L2/L3 criteria above?) For 501st approval: Optional glove choice for ROTJ Warrant Officers:  (Why is this optional if we see ROTJ movie references with WOs wearing gloves?) Black, wrist length gloves constructed of a non-textured leather or leather-like material. Enclosed fingers. No buckles, straps, etc.  May have three stitched lines on the back of the hand for ROTJ. ROTJ gloves are longer at the wrist. (Does this conflict with L2 criteria? If not, it needs clarification.)   ---------   Black Gauntlet Gloves (TIE Reserve Pilot)   (no corrections noted, but included for comparison to Bridge Crew) For 501st approval: Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, (normal leather grain/texture/lines are acceptable) fitted gauntlet style. No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching. Three straight lines, on the back of the hand (that match some references), are optional. For level two certification (if applicable): Gloves are made of leather. For level three certification (if applicable): Gauntlets slightly flair-out, upward from the wrist to the mid-forearm.

 

----------

 

Black Gauntlet Gloves (Bridge Crew) For 501st approval: Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, fitted gauntlet style. No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching are permitted. Three straight lines, on the back of the hand, are optional.

For level two certification (if applicable): Gloves are made of leather. ROTJ bridge crew shall wear gauntlet style gloves. ANH and ESB bridge crew shall not wear gloves.

 

 

Here's an example of the gauntlet style gloves with the stitching on the back of the hands:

 

[Warrant Officer / Staff Officer / Bridge Crew gloves]

6 hours ago, xAlpha said:

Only in that it was omitted in the descriptions above, as compared to the TIE Reserve Pilot.

 

I agree that it's implied, but I didn't add it to Bridge Crew because it's an L3 requirement for Reserve Pilot, and I didn't know if there is some additional criteria that needs to be met for adding L3 requirements to the CRL. For Bridge Crew in particular, the gloves seem too inconclusive to get that specific, which is why I only suggested the optional stitching correction for basic 501st requirements.

 

If you think it's warranted though, we can certainly propose adding the Reserve Pilot L3 requirement to the Bridge Crew CRL.

[Warrant Officer / Staff Officer / Bridge Crew gloves]

Thank you, Patricia. I've updated the edits/corrections to reflect your clarifications.

[Staff Officer (black) CRL Update to R1 specifications]

Not sure if this will be helpful or not, but Line Officers are traditionally considered naval officers, as the term historically referred to officers serving on a ship of the line - or a ship constructed between the 17th and 19th century that was capable of participating in a line of battle naval tactic. In more modern parlance, it has since come to mean a naval officer who exercises operational command authority.

 

This seems like an appropriate distinction with Staff Officers given that in Star Wars canon, the Imperial military primarily consisted of Navy and Army ranks. To me, at least, Staff Officers are more ambiguous, and would simply be in command positions for a variety of other non-ship related roles, whether it's security, ground forces, base/installation commanders, logistics, intelligence, and so on. Given that Line Officers are specific to the Navy, it stands to reason that Staff Officers lend themselves to the Army side of the Imperial military organization.

 

In summary, I'm not sure that something as equally vague could be used to replace Staff Officer, and the alternative would be splitting up their various and numerous roles into separate CRLS, which would be cumbersome and problematic to manage in the CRL.

 

Just my humble 2 cents, at least, for whatever it's worth.

[Warrant Officer / Staff Officer / Bridge Crew gloves]

To both summarize and clarify the points that have been brought up so far, here are the proposed CRL updates (corrections struck through, notes in red):

 

Black Gauntlet Gloves (Staff Officer, Black)   (no corrections noted) For 501st approval: Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, (normal leather grain/texture/lines are acceptable) fitted gauntlet style. No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching. Three straight lines, on the back of the hand (that match some references), are optional.

For level two certification (if applicable): Gloves are made of leather.

For level three certification (if applicable): Gauntlets slightly flair-out, upward from the wrist to the mid-forearm.   ---------   Black Gauntlet Gloves (Warrant Officer) For 501st approval: Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, fitted gauntlet length. No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching are permitted. For level two certification (if applicable): Gloves are made of leather. ANH ROTJ warrant officers shall not wear gauntlet style gloves. ROTJ warrant officers may wear gauntlet style gloves.   Gloves (Warrant Officer: ESB and ROTJ)   (Should this whole section be included in L2/L3 criteria above?) For 501st approval: Optional glove choice for ROTJ Warrant Officers:  (Why is this optional if we see ROTJ movie references with WOs wearing gloves?) Black, wrist length gloves constructed of a non-textured leather or leather-like material. Enclosed fingers. No buckles, straps, etc.  May have three stitched lines on the back of the hand for ROTJ. ROTJ gloves are longer at the wrist. (Does this conflict with L2 criteria? If not, it needs clarification.)   ---------   Black Gauntlet Gloves (TIE Reserve Pilot)   (no corrections noted, but included for comparison to Bridge Crew) For 501st approval: Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, (normal leather grain/texture/lines are acceptable) fitted gauntlet style. No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching. Three straight lines, on the back of the hand (that match some references), are optional. For level two certification (if applicable): Gloves are made of leather. For level three certification (if applicable): Gauntlets slightly flair-out, upward from the wrist to the mid-forearm.   ----------   Black Gauntlet Gloves (Bridge Crew) For 501st approval: Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, fitted gauntlet style. No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching are permitted. Three straight lines, on the back of the hand, are optional. (This seems to have been omitted, as there's no clear evidence to support its exclusion.) For level two certification (if applicable): Gloves are made of leather. ROTJ bridge crew shall wear gauntlet style gloves. ANH and ESB bridge crew shall not wear gloves.   Is this accurate so far? Any additional thoughts?

[Warrant Officer / Staff Officer / Bridge Crew gloves]

For Warrant Officer, this is perhaps one of the best close-up pictures I've seen. It's very clear that he is not wearing gauntlet style gloves because those do not fit inside the sleeve, whereas in the movie reference below, we see the sleeve is actually over the glove. Basically, this supports your assertion that Warrant Officers in ROTJ wore the short gloves like Line Officers.

 

[Warrant Officer / Staff Officer / Bridge Crew gloves]

While there has been some very interesting points brought up in this conversation, and I appreciate the picture references provided by the Captain (thank you, Patricia!), the question still stands in my mind. I would point out though that Line Officers and Imperial Navy Troopers are not what I'm questioning. It's the glove inconsistencies specifically between Staff Officers, Warrant Officers, and Bridge Crew (and TIE Reserve Pilot, which I'll get to below). Related to that, we see what appears to be a Warrant Officer with buckles on his gloves in some of the film references provided above. Yet according to the CRL, buckles aren't allowed for Warrant Officers. On the pictures of the Bridge Crew in formation, it's impossible to enlarge the photo with enough clarity to see if their gloves have stitching on the back as we've seen for Warrant and Staff Officers. Is there a more definitive picture reference for Bridge Crew?

 

What's also compelling evidence is the TIE Reserve Pilot, which is identical to the Bridge Crew costume except for the addition of the side arm (DH-17, in most movie references). Again, the CRL permits the stitching on the back of the gloves for this costume, but it's prohibited for Bridge Crew.

 

Black Gauntlet Gloves (TIE Reserve Pilot)
For 501st approval:

• Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, (normal leather grain/texture/lines are acceptable) fitted gauntlet style.
• No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching.
• Three straight lines, on the back of the hand (that match some references), are optional.

 

I realize the purpose of the CRL is to keep us as accurate as possible with movie canon, and the movies had quite a few (subtle) inconsistencies where Imperial uniforms were concerned. Respectfully, and for the reasons stated above, the gloves for all three (four, if you include TIE Reserve Pilot) of these related costumes needs a formal review for all those related CRLs.

[Warrant Officer / Staff Officer / Bridge Crew gloves]

It's very confusing and inconsistent, and the CRL seems to reflect that at least.

[Warrant Officer / Staff Officer / Bridge Crew gloves]

As I worked toward meeting my L2 requirements for Bridge Crew, I discovered some inconsistencies with the gloves worn for that costume compared to similar costumes such as Warrant Officer and Staff Officer. While some of this may be addressed by formatting changes being discussed in another topic, it doesn't help 501st members who are trying to meet higher levels of certification. In particular, the three stitched lines on the back of the gloves are not allowed for Bridge Crew, but they are allowed for Warrant and Staff Officers.

 

My question therefore is does the obvious inconsistency justify a CRL review? Should the Bridge Crew gloves be consistent with Warrant/Staff Officers since there are some references for that?

 

I've bolded the relevant parts for comparison:

 

 

Gloves (ESB and ROTJ Staff Officer)
For 501st approval:

• Optional glove choice for ROTJ Warrant Officers:
• Black, wrist length gloves constructed of a non-textured leather or leather-like material.
• Enclosed fingers.
• No buckles, straps, etc.
  • May have three stitched lines on the back of the hand for ROTJ.
  • ROTJ gloves are longer at the wrist.

 

Black Gauntlet Gloves (Warrant Officer)
For 501st approval:

• Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, (normal leather grain/texture/lines are acceptable) fitted gauntlet style.
• No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching.
• Three straight lines, on the back of the hand (that match some references), are optional.

 

Black Gauntlet Gloves (Bridge Crew)
For 501st approval:

• Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured, fitted gauntlet style.
• No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching are permitted.

[IC-90109 Imperial Bridge Crew requesting Executor status]

I would like to formally withdraw this request for Imperial Bridge Crew (ROTJ) Executor Status. I'm unable to find suitable gloves that meet the L2 CRL criteria (they all have that stitching on the back of the hands), and I have neither the time nor the talent to create them from scratch. If I do manage to find gauntlet gloves that meet the requirements, I'll resubmit this request.

 

Thank you for both your time and consideration, Tristan.

[IC-90109 Imperial Bridge Crew requesting Executor status]

Understood, Tristan.

 

I'd like to keep this request open for ROTJ until I get the gloves replaced. I intend to do that ASAP. Is there a way to change the topic title to say: "IC-90109 Imperial Bridge Crew (ROTJ) requesting Executor status"? It will make it easier to differentiate them.

 

In the meanwhile, I'll create a new post for the ESB request.

[IC-90109 Imperial Bridge Crew requesting Executor status]

If I want to request Executor status for ESB (until I can replace the gloves), do I need to make a new, separate post for that?

[IC-90109 Imperial Bridge Crew requesting Executor status]

I have the code cylinders, and can easily remove the compad (it slides into the sleeve pouch). Since I have the code cylinders (pictured below), that should be sufficient for ESB L2. 

 

I don't know if it makes a difference to attain Executor status as ESB, ANH, or ROTJ, but I'd like to pursue ROTJ L2. I'll look into what it will cost to replace the gloves.

 

[IC-90109 Imperial Bridge Crew requesting Executor status]

Apologies, Tristan.

 

I thought the Photobucket pics would be sufficient. I've taken more detailed pictures with the costume off, and have linked them directly below for your consideration.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me know if you need anything else!

[IC-90109 Imperial Bridge Crew requesting Executor status]

Greetings, Promotion Board!

 

I'm a new member, both with the 501st and with the IOC. Although I've obviously met the minimum requirements for 501st Legion membership, I carefully followed the CRL for my costume with the intention of meeting level 2 criteria for OT/ROTJ. I've included a link to it here for ease of reference. I'm therefore respectfully requesting Executor status. My pics follow the CRL link.

 

1. Your Name:  Scott Grant

2.  Your 501st Legion ID #: 90109

3: Your IOC forum name: IC90109

4: Your Garrison: MWG Garrison

5.  501st Link - IC-90109

 

https://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:IC_imperial_bridge_crew

 

 

 

Here is the link to my Photobucket album that contains all my 501st Legion submission pics so that you can verify that the entire costume is CRL accurate.

 

http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Moldou/library/501st Legion

 

Please bear in mind that the code cylinders in the album pics are excluded for the ROTJ criteria, and some of the album pics don't show the compad, which is included for the ROTJ criteria, because I only recently got that finished (and is pictured above).

 

Please let me know if you require anything else.

 

Respectfully,

Scott Grant

IC-90109