sundancekat

Hey everybody!  Bob mentioned this topic earlier today in his detachment newsletter, but the discussion for it has thus far been on the staff-only section of the forums, which isn't visible to the membership at large.  So, I would like to duplicate my comments here to solicit more feedback.
 
I would like to make three changes to the judging standards used by deployment officers to judge L2/L3 (Executor/Imperator) submissions.  I believe these changes will remove some subjectivity and ambiguity from the process.  These changes primarily affect Imperator (L3) submissions since the criteria for those is higher than they are for Executor (L2).
 
1. Judging done on CRL specifications only; no unwritten/subjective criteria
 
In the past, applicants have been judged on criteria that are not explicitly spelled out in the CRL, such as the presence of undyed vs. dyed edges on belts, edge grooves on belts, numbers of belt holes, jodhpur shape, tunic length, etc.  Since these are not spelled out in the CRL (or were not in the past; some may be now), there is no way for the applicant to prepare in advance unless they are "in the know", and there is no guarantee the unwritten criteria will be applied consistently across all applicants and different deployment officers.
 
Going forward, we will judge applicants solely based on what is explicitly stated in the CRL.  Some of the criteria I mentioned above have since been added into their respective CRLs (such as undyed belt edges on the ANH Staff Officer CRL) anyway.  If any deployment officers or other IOC staff believe we should be judging based on criteria that are not currently in the CRL, we will discuss them as CRL edits and get them added there (if the consensus goes that way) before they will be used to judge any L2/L3 submissions.
 
This does not mean that deployment officers are prevented from making recommendations or suggestions to applicants based on details that are present in reference material but aren't explicitly stated in the CRLs.  However, these recommendations will be in the form of suggestions only, and will not be used to deny L2/L3 applications.
 
 
2. Emulating an on-screen/canon officer is encouraged, but not required.
 
One of the current expectations for L3 submissions is that the applicant emulate a specific officer configuration (in other words a specific rank bar + code cylinder + belt box + glove + sidearm + any other accessory configuration).  Again, for "generic" CRLs, this isn't spelled out as a L3 requirement.  As long as the applicant's individual costume pieces meet CRL criteria and they are in a configuration that makes sense for that costume (for example: no OT rank bar with Rogue One belt boxes), we will not require that the applicant pick a specific officer configuration and emulate them.
 
We still encourage applicants to emulate a specific officer configuration since that's the easiest way to be really really accurate  and it's a way to show love to a favorite canon officer , but again, this is only if the applicant wants to.
 
 
3. One submission per CRL/version
 
In the past, multiple L3 submissions have been allowed on a single CRL, due to the requirement that applicants emulate an on-screen officer.  Some applicants were then able to rack up many L3 awards on a single costume by switching accessories (for example: submitting their line officer as Admiral Piett, then General Tagge, then Captain Needa). Instead, we propose to allow only one L2 and one L3 submission for an approved costume on a single discrete CRL.  
 
The exception to this will be for CRLs with version tabbing.  An applicant can submit one L2 and one L3 submission for each version of a CRL.  For example, Krennic has four version tabs, so someone could conceivably submit four L2 and four L3 applications if they have all the required options.

SAME!!!

One correction: There is no need to retire your original costume, unless you alter it somehow to the point it can no longer be configured.  Which shouldn't be necessary... the differences are mostly just accessories.  The soft parts aren't different, other than maybe the hat pin, which is simple to swap back and forth.
 
When you submit a Bridge Crew with a flightsuit, and use that same flightsuit with other accessories to apply for Reserve Pilot, you don't have to retire your bridge crew.  It's still a viable costume.

OK, so!  After conferring with the rest of staff (thanks Kalani!), I have learned that even though the original "Staff Officer" CRL is no longer active, it is still documented and I am allowed to use it for any L2/L3 submissions for this costume.  (There can't be any new costume approvals using this particular CRL, but we can still do L2/L3 judging of existing costumes using it.)
 
So, you have two options:
 
1. Have your existing costume judged to L2 (and later L3 if you want) using the original "Staff Officer" CRL.
 
2. Upgrade your costume to conform to the specs in the new "Staff Officer (Non Saga)" CRL.  However, if you do this, you will need to resubmit your costume to your GML to be approved as "Staff Officer (Non Saga)" (and have your original "Staff Officer" costume retired), and then you can resubmit the costume for L2 approval here
 
Since your costume is already approved with the "Staff Officer" CRL and I believe you've completed all the previously requested modifications, option 1 is likely the simplest/easiest in your current situation.  You could also go with option 1 now, get your grandfathered costume L2/L3 approved, and then at some point in the future you could make the changes necessary for approval as "Staff Officer (Non Saga)", resubmit for L2/L3, and potentially rack up some more awards.  
 
Regardless, I'll go ahead and pull together a list of what you'd need to change to conform to the new CRL, since it sounds like you want to go that direction eventually.  Let me know if my explanation above is confusing or if you have any more questions.  Thanks!!

We can chat about this shortly.  In my opinion, I don't see why Sherry can't be judged (for L2) on the costume she originally submitted for Level 2 on.  She was basically approved pending photos long before the CRL was cut over to the new one.  Even if it takes a bit longer for her to get there, the ball was certainly rolling on this before anything changed.
 
But we can hash this out and determine a policy, in case others feel otherwise.

Works for me! I've amended the draft and added it to the list of common things this particular uniform does  NOT have, alongside epaulettes and a bicep patch.

Seconding lack of center back seam. We currently only have 3/4 back view sort of reference that doesn't show if there is one; given the rest of the structure of the tunic I find it highly unlikely that there would be. (We do, however, have back view of one of the chibi Rose figures and she does NOT have a center back seam)

Stipulating that its missing might prevent people from making a big mistake while trying to keep in line with other FO uniforms.

From what we've seen, it does not, no. The rear seams are mentioned as two traditional vertical princess seams, I would have assumed that it would be implied that these were the only seams, however yeah it is a change from the norm since Lt and Gen have the center seam. It could be worth stipulating it alongside the lack of epaulettes and bicep First Order insignia patch that its yet another thing missing from "the norm" so far?

EDIT: At the very least, despite lack of rear references, it would make absolutely no sense whatsoever for there to be a rear center seam or vent! This tunic style is super reminiscent of Imperial uniforms, the closest I've seen amongst the rest of the First Order uniforms!

Question about the tunic...does it have a center back vent like the General (and I assume Lieutenant) tunic? I'm assuming it doesn't, since the tunic shouldn't have a CB seam with a collar like that. Should we explicitly state no CB seam or CB vent? 

Question about the tunic...does it have a center back vent like the General (and I assume Lieutenant) tunic? I'm assuming it doesn't, since the tunic shouldn't have a CB seam with a collar like that. Should we explicitly state no CB seam or CB vent? 

Afternoon all!

After running this past the tailoring and First Order knowledge of @rattleandburn, @Tentayena and @DarkJedi, I think we're in a really solid place with this draft!
I took the CRL draft provided on  page three of this thread by @Tutanchseth and used it as a base to build on. A lot of the structure and highlighted changes were  highlighted there, so I elaborated, standardised where I could, and ensured the text was as accurate and technically correct/worded correctly as I could. @rattleandburn was a huge help there for technical wording.
While working on this draft, a few standardisation issues across all First Order officer CRL's either currently available or in the works were highlighted, but we can discuss those elsewhere.
Without further ado:
 
--------------------------------------------
 
First Order Major and Colonel CRL Draft:
 
 
Hair and facial appearance
For 501st approval:
 
If hair is worn short, it should not extend past the top of the collar at the back of the neck.
If hair is long, it should be neat and worn up in a military bun. Hair should also be kept neatly tied back away from the face.
Costumer is clean shaven.
If the costumer is wearing makeup, it should be subtle and appear “natural”.
 
Note: I’m adding apprarance guidelines for generic officers because I believe officers should be neat and tidy/presentable. Possible character specifics for Kaplan and Datoo have been given below for those looking to specifically portray those officers:
 
Colonel Datoo:
Costumer is clean shaven.
Very short, neat, greying (???) hair. Either the costumer’s own hair or a suitable hair appliance such as a wig.
 
Colonel Kaplan:
Costumer is clean shaven.
No visible hair, either through removal of costumer’s own hair or through suitable bald cap application.
 
Tunic, First Order Major, Teal
For 501st approval:
 
Fabric is a medium weight suiting material exactly matching the pants.
Fabric is a medium-dark blue with notable green tones similar to ‘peacock blue’ or specifically ‘blue teal’
Fabric is twill, gabardine style weave is most accurate.
Tunic is fitted to the wearer.
Tunic is double-breasted and has a left over right closure. It ends atop the right seam as seen in reference pictures. The fastenings for this closure should be completely hidden.
The top edge of the front closure continues downward from the left-hand side of the collar in a 45 degree angle across the upper chest where it fastens into place.
The collar is not separated from the front panels, nor the back, by a seam. The only seam is that which follows through from the shoulder seam to the neck, separating front and back of tunic.
Collar is draped so that it lies neatly against the neck, snugly fitting, with no noticeable bend or wrinkle. Overlap of collar portions is at a noticeable angle, forming a visible V-shape at the center throat - no rounded shape.
Sleeves are long, and without decoration, folded cuffs or buttons. A visible seam line separates the sleeve from the straight cuff portion, which is approximately 4.5 - 5.5”.
There are two vertical seams - straight princess seams - running the full length of the garment, on both front and rear of the tunic. These seams meet each other at the shoulder seam, approximately halfway between the neck and the sleeve seam.
Tunic has a waist seam spanning the full circumference of the waist, hidden by the belt.
The tunic does not feature epaulets, a center-back seam, nor a First Order insignia patch.
There should be no visible hems or top-stitching on the sleeves, collar, tunic opening or along the bottom of the tunic.  
For level two certification (if applicable):
Tunic is fully lined in a suitable colour.
 
Jodphur Trousers, First Order Major, Teal
For 501st approval:
 
Fabric is a light to medium weight suiting material exactly matching the tunic.
Flared jodhpurs have sharply pointed, semi-stiff flares in the hip/thigh area, below the tunic and above the knee. The shape of the flared pants at the thighs should be slightly rectangular as per reference images. This flare should follow the flare of the bottom of the tunic. This angle should not change.
Pockets and waist belts are acceptable, although should not be visible with the tunic on.
Stirrups may be attached to the leg bottoms to keep material tightly tucked into the boots
The fabric below the knee should remain fitted to the leg and tuck tightly into the boots.
             
Officer Boots, First Order, Black
For 501st approval:
 
Knee-high, black, lace-less, smooth non-textured, leather or leather-like material, with moderate to high-gloss shine.
Rubber rain boots or wellington boots are not acceptable.
PVC or synthetic material is allowed as long as it gives the appearance of leather.
There are no stretch panels, buckles, snap tabs, or decoration.
Boot seams must closely match screen-used boots.
Boots have conservative or no heels at all. Flat soles are most accurate.
If zippers are present, they appear on the inner part of the boot shaft only.
The toe of the boot is rounded, not in a square, rounded, or pointed style
The top of the boots are flat style, not Spanish, Cowboy, or Superhero.
 
For level two certification (if applicable):
Boots have a zipper on the inner shaft.
Soles are flat, similar to FO TK and TI soles.
Seams and design must match screen-used boots.         
 Gloves, First Order, Black
For 501st approval:
 
Gloves are constructed of a non-textured, black leather or leather-like material.
Enclosed fingers.
Gloves are gauntlet length, fitted, and worn underneath the sleeves.
No buckles, straps, etc.
Gloves may have stitching detail on the back of the palm similar to First Order Lieutenant for basic approval.
Belt, First Order
For 501st approval:
 
The belt is constructed from a black, non-textured leather or a leather-like material.
Approximately 2-2.5" in width, by 4.5-5” in length is acceptable. Belt band is not at all wider than buckle.
Belt must fit snugly over the natural waist of the wearer.
There are no loops on the belt.
No sizing holes should be visible.
The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal-looking material.
Buckle is free of decoration, greeblies or insignia.
Buckle is rectangular, with sharp-angled edges, approximately 5 1/4" (13.3 cm) long & 2 1/2 high (6.35 cm).
 
For level two certification (if applicable):
Belt is made of leather.
Buckle is made of a brushed metal such as aluminium.
Buckle has a slight horizontal curve.
Rank Insignia, First Order
For 501st approval:
 
Rank consists of one black band sewn down to the sleeve with white piped/embroidered edges at the top and bottom.
Aurebesh text dependant on rank is to be embroidered, hand sewn, or applied via vinyl transfer to the center of the band. The text options are:
“Tarkin” for Major
“Kaplan” for Colonel
Bar should be worn on the left side of arm, just above the wrist cuff seam and below the elbow.
It should be invisibly stitched down to the sleeve in full, or adhered securely using iron-on patch adhesive. The bar should not appear loose.
Major and Colonel costumes do not have a First Order emblem patch on their sleeves.
 
For level two certification (if applicable):
 
Aurebesh text is machine embroidered in white thread matching the edge piping/embroidery discussed above.
First Order Officer Hat, Teal
For 501st approval:
  The hat's brim is a black leather, or leather-like material protruding from the front bottom of the dome. It is slightly curved in shape and does not obscure the wearer's eyes.
The dome fits snugly on the head when worn and should cock slightly back like a baseball cap.
It is fitted to the head and does not cover the ears.
There is a tall flap which runs around the back of the hat, snugly fitting around the dome at the back and at both sides.
The flap piece is not higher than the dome of the hat, and does not overly flex outward. It is effectively vertical in respect to the rest of the hat, and when viewed from the side, it's edges are tilted slightly back at an angle.
The First Order emblem is centered in the front of the hat's dome. It is black and silver. The silver areas should have a metallic finish.
The hat is made of the same teal fabric as the tunic and pants, with suitable interfacing or buckram as to give it the correct shape and stiffness.
The dome has a subtly curved seam separating the front panel from rest of the hat, with a similar seam on the back section of the dome, with one vertical seam running down the dome's back.
For level two certification (if applicable):
First Order insignia is a silver/nickel metal pin with a slight brushed finish and black enamel paint. It should be centered in the front of the hat's dome. It is approx 1 1/2" wide & 1 3/4" tall.
The hat’s brim is leather. Its finish matches that seen in reference images.
Hat features topstitching on either side of seams on the side and back panels of the hat as well as on the panels at the seam where they meet the dome, but not upon the dome itself. The front dome features top-stitching only at the lower edge where it meets the brim.
Optional Accessories
Items below are optional costume accessories. These items are not required for approval, but if present appear as described below.
 Officer's Blaster, First Order
For 501st approval:
 
·        Based on a replica Glock 19 repeating pistol, scratch-built with added greeblies, or a modified commercial replica is acceptable.
·        Details to be painted black and silver per reference photos.

Ooh ooh ooh, we finally have an in-universe answer for this one!  The Rogue One Visual Guide indicates that it is a "Private datapad contained in shockproof case".  For those with the book, check out page 121, the picture of Lieutenant Mytus Adema.
 
(and then check out the previous page where we get an in-universe justification for the "non-uniform" rank badges. )

To my Eyes they look very similar if not the same in their bobble-ness!
 
Now when I say the DW Design is Bobblish, here is a photo from the ACD Forums

 
I've got both on order so I will be able to do a comparison!!
 
The Fierfeks should be here next Thursday!!!!!

I liked Catalyst i even liked Life debt, Aftermath i bought in the states to read on the plane flying home from Dragon con, suffice to say i have no idea how it ended and i left it on the plane

I wear my black hat (the one I troop with) before and after troops all the time. It's easier to put all my hair up in it at home, and just keep it up there after the troop until I get home. Now that I have the black and green hats Disney sells in the parks I wear those after troops. I've never been harassed, or complimented, or even had a comment made. I'm usually in my patch hoodie, but I've worn it out with a black winter coat and never had a problem then either.

Only time I have had someone make a Nazi comment to me was a photographer at a con, maybe in his early 20s, who asked me to "salute" and then did the Nazi salute to show me what he wanted. Honestly I was too shocked at what this kid was asking me to do that I could only stare in disbelief.

Anyway, that's just one person's experience. For reference I'm a white girl, pretty Aryan looking, living in the southern US, and I troop in pretty safe suburban areas. The only time I've wondered if someone might say something is riding the MARTA by myself to the DragonCon parade lineup, but even then I've been fine. But, your mileage may vary.

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then our rules and procedures do not serve us for the new movies... and maybe they won't for decades.  
 
You can't make people want to do costumes they weren't interested in when they are focused on something they want to do.  rules and procedures serve the membership.  and when they don't serve, new ones need to be proposed so that they DO serve.
 
that does not mean that people don't want the highest accuracy possible.  anyone that says that is what this means is mischaracterizing this.  In this case, we are not talking about details, we are asking is the one there the same as the one wore by Hux, the one we know the details of.  That is a yes or no questions.  That is almost like asking "is the stormtrooper in back the same as the stormtrooper in front?"  To say "no, we don't have any pictures of the stormtroopers in back" is the response we are getting.

Untitled by Robert Barker, on Flickr

General Hux's uniform is a general's uniform.  The implications are this is what other Generals would wear.

This week's episode of Rebels entitled "Through Imperial Eyes" is a must see for IOC Officers! The entire episode involves the Imperial Security Bureau and there is so much great officer detail. Keep your eyes peeled. And they actual show the USE of code cylinders! Definitely check it out.

That was an awesome episode.  First canon use of code cylinders AS code cylinders on screen!  Historic for the IOC!

Richard LePalmiter was going to get one of those creamed colored uniforms to represent the "air force", but he couldn't fit into it, so he got another green one like Tagge. Richard was from Pittsburgh and he would come home to the Pittsburgh comicon in the late 90's when I first met him.  He was originally hired to play the imperial governor of Tatooine but that fell through with the changes to the script that  were ongoing.  So he ended up Motti on the Death Star.  

Richard was one of those North Americans that came over to England in the 60's and 70's to play people with American accents in British cinema.  We lost him way too soon.
 
Accents did represent where you came from.  A north american accent meant you came from a very rural far away area.  I liked how Edwards made sure that Krennic had a working class accent.  He was not accepted by the officer corp and that resentment played through in his role and Krennic's climb.  He was getting to the top by his ability, not by the virtue of his birth.

And most actually spoke with an English accent  
 

The Jedi betrayed the Republic and the New Order. ​  The Jedi lost their way.
r/
Mike

Very true Tacblue. Talking about Jedi as the good guys is dangerous talk for a man of the Empire

Awesome, even us ISB officers got a mention although being compered the Herman Goering is a bit worrying !
I knew we were special !!!

I was discussing the officer uniform on another forum - when Peter Briggs a screenplay writer who's currently developing Panzer 88 with Gary Kurtz made this comment:
"I remember that John Mollo told me that his intent with the "Black Officers" was to make them Vader's personal troops…they were Vader's very own "SS". I was surprised at that, as I always assumed they were simply a standard Imperial rank. Likewise, John told me that the white/cream uniformed guy in the Death Star conference was modeled after Goering, and he was meant to be a sort of Air Field Marshall of the Imperial Fleet. John took his job very seriously. I think it showed!"
I couldn't think where to put it, but I thought it was worth sharing, for those who hadn't heard it.