shadan

I wish I could go!

The photoshoot will be held on Saturday, May 28th at 10:30 AM at the convention Staircase.

Do like this idea, my only concern is that it may appear a little confusuing to some people, particalarly when we already have other Rebels-specific CRLs.
 
This is my opinion only (would be happy to hear from others!) but I look at the Officers in Rebels as being no different to those we've seen anywhere in terms of in-world canon.
They appear different simply because of the medium used in this TV show.
So I would suggest that if we do add another tab to the Imperial Military Officer (non-saga) CRL then this would remain a 'real-world' costume, meaning regular boots, tunic, jodphurs, rank badge etc, but with the addition of things like the 7th Fleet patch, markings on the hat and collar of the tunic.
We could even potentially list these items as optional accessories rather than a tab.
 
Then we proceed with this CRL here, keeping it a separate entry, with all the rebels-sepcific items like you've mentioned above. Noting the almost everything is different to 'real-world' items, this would make sense I think?
 
This would give people a choice.
They could go the fully stylised animated route, OR a costume that looks as though it comes from live-action.
 
Just my thoughts but would like to hear from others.

My feeling is that we keep it similar to how the Imperial Military Officer (Non-Saga) allows for multiple configurations at the basic level.

(For additional info, here was the discussion during Lindsay's build - https://www.imperialofficer.com/forum/index.php?/topic/10898-rebels-style-officer-wseventh-fleet-emblem-optional-accessory-crl-proposalwip/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-155841)

Can somebody please explain to me why we are the only detachment trying to get all cartoon/animated costumes looking cartoony in real life while costumes like Hondo, the Grand Inquisitor, Seventh Sister and so on are made to look realistic? 
 
Why? 
 
 

Any objections from anyone here before locking the "hair and appearance" section? Feels like it should be standard language to allow flexibility for the future. If no objection, I will lock, and then we can move on the hat, which should be some interesting discussions!

We will be using this thread to finalize the CRL for Imperial Military Officer (Rebels).
 
Also referred to as "Rebels Line Officer" and "Rebels Style Officer" on the forum, we are going to follow the current naming convention and refer to this as "Imperial Military Officer (Rebels)". This should also give us the flexibility to expand on the CRL if we'd like in the future. We will leverage existing verbiage from other CRLs where possible. 
 
We will use this post as the main listing, and tackle each part one by one. (Green = complete, Yellow = WIP, and Red = yet to be finalized):
 
Hair and appearance Hat, Olive, Rebels-Style Tunic, Olive Rank Bar Code Cylinders Belt Jodhpur Trousers Officer Boots Gloves (Optional) Belt boxes (Optional) Colored contact lenses (Optional) Holster (Optional) Blaster (Optional)  
Also linking here to a few previous threads and useful info - we are consolidating them here, and will continue the conversation / discussion on THIS thread.
 
Reference images: https://imgur.com/a/beec3PI @LindsayL's build thread: https://www.imperialofficer.com/forum/index.php?/topic/10898-rebels-style-officer-wseventh-fleet-emblem-optional-accessory-crl-proposalwip/  
------------FINALIZED TEXT GOES BELOW THIS LINE------------
Description: Imperial Military Officer (Rebels)
Prefix: ID
Detachment: Imperial Officer Corps
Context: Star Wars: Rebels
TBD
Special Notes:
TBD --------------------------------------------
Hair and appearance
Applicants may style hair, facial hair, alter eye color, or use makeup, to emulate any character that wears this costume, provided the example is from a licensed LFL source. When not emulating a specific character’s appearance, applicants are encouraged, but not required, to adhere to conservative hair stylings and grooming of a military nature.  
Hat, Olive, Rebels-Style
Hat is OPTIONAL but only if a specific referenced licensed character’s typical uniform configuration is copied in full, and does not typically include a hat. Fabric is a medium weight suiting material matching the pants and tunic if applicable. Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4 inches (101.6 mm) tall. Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides, with the back flap over the front, and are about 4 inches (101.6 mm) high. Front bill extends 3 inches down; there are no concentric stitches. Imperial Code Disk is positioned in the center of the front vertical "flap.” Code Disk exactly matches Rebels style disk  
Tunic, Olive
Fabric is a medium weight Olive/Field grey colored suiting material matching the trousers (and hat, if present). Tunic is double-breasted with a left over right closure on the tapered yoke. Yoke comes up across the shoulder to the top shoulder seam. The standing collar has square corners, is between 1.25" (31.8 mm) to 2" tall, and closes snugly. The wearer's neck must not be visible between the closed collar edges. A modesty panel behind the collar closure is recommended to help with this, but is not required. Collar edges are closed together in front with two eye hooks. There are code cylinder pockets on both outside panels of the jacket, from about half way between the top and bottom on the arm hole. A central seam runs down the back of the tunic, with no princess seams. Tunic has long sleeves which are without decoration, cuffs or buttons. Tunic is constructed with no top-stitching (stitches visible on the exterior surface of fabric). Fasteners on the uniform should not be visible. Uniform is to be pressed and free of a wrinkled appearance.  
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Sleeve may contain one seam on the inner arm.
  Rank Bar
Worn on the left side of the tunic over the heart, aligned with the code cylinder pocket. Rank consists of same-sized colored plastic tiles mounted on metal or metal looking bar. Length and height are determined by chosen rank. Each bar is approximately 1" (25.4 mm) height.
Rank bar corners are slightly rounded.
Rank tiles are translucent, rectangular, positioned side by side in a vertical orientation, and evenly spaced. Color, quantity, and combinations of the tiles/bars are determined by rank, and are appropriate to uniform type/color as supported by licensed reference.
 
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
For rank bars with two rows, the rank bar is one strip with four rounded corners NOT two separate bars as with OT rank bars; tiles are opaque. Chosen rank to match a specific officer seen onscreen or other licensed media.  
Code Cylinders
Between 1 to 4 Code Cylinders per costume may be worn.
No more than 2 code cylinders per pocket.
Modified Silver "chalk holder" tube with a short clip and blue top. Dosimeter Style: True Dosimeter with correct clip and Blue top. Clip is silver in color.  
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Must be Rebels style code cylinder with correct Rebels style clip and blue caps.   Belt
The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material. Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width no more than approximately 3" (76.2 mm) wide. There are no loops on the belt. A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to the left of the buckle, snap can be raised to a semi conical shape. The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material. Buckle has a raised metal code disk. Code Disk exactly matches Rebels style disk  
 
Jodhpur Trousers
Fabric is a medium weight suiting material exactly matching the tunic. Trousers are flared riding breeches, with semi-stiff flares to the hip/thigh area. Breeches are worn with boots. Breeches are neatly pressed or ironed without creases. Pockets are acceptable, although must not be visible with the tunic on.  
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
The flares on the jodhpurs mimic the shape of Rebels officer’s flares

And here we go! Let's start with "Hair and appearance".
 
Here is the text from the Imperial Military Officer (Non-Saga) CRL. I think it applies just as equally.
 
Hair and appearance
Applicants may style hair, facial hair, alter eye color, or use makeup, to emulate any character that wears this costume, provided the example is from a licensed LFL source. When not emulating a specific character’s appearance, applicants are encouraged, but not required, to adhere to conservative hair stylings and grooming of a military nature.

Hey Kevin!  This update is definitely on our to-do list, but we're trying to clean up some long overdue costumes that have been waiting considerably longer.  (In particular the rebels officer and non-saga crew flightsuits, after which smaller revisions like this are tops)
 
Are there any small, straightforward changes that you feel are urgent?  I can possibly implement them sooner than a larger overhaul.

Nothing is urgent, I figured staff was busy getting new CRLs in, which I agree is a far bigger priority than adjusting old ones. No one here is in a hurry, let’s get some new CRLs first


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Yes, it’s inconsistency like this that have so many of us so upset.
If there were clear and defined rules and procedures that would be one thing, and I’m sure we would all accept that.
(For those who argue that there MUST be 360° views, this is quite simply not the case. The very wording says that ideally there should be these views available, is does not say that they are a definitive requirement)
But this doesn’t appear to be the case here. We see some costumes get through and others not.
I’ve said it here before and I’ve said in the moan Legion boards, CRLs are continuously revised and updated over time. I’m literally part of the IOC CRL team doing that very thing now. We are talking about a fabric tunic which in all likelihood has nothing to see on that back than we’ve already seen. The very reason it hasn’t been seen is that there’s nothing to see. There is no hard armour, no backpack, no wings or fairylights there. It’s fabric. There might be an additional seam. And this is worst case. 
If the CRL was green lit right now with the known sources, any future references could be easily incorporated into the text or images, if required.
This happens literally all the time. We improve our CRLs when more information comes to light. 

I'm not sure where those images and names came from, but not the current rank chart used by the IOC.
 
Long story short, though, there's quite a bit of inconsistency between films because they had different costume designers who did not necessarily respect precedent.  There are a number of variations of spacing used on various rank bars.  Essentially if you are trying to replicate a particular officer's rank for a Level 3 approval, you would do well to emulate their specific spacing as well.
 
Meanwhile, the most current rank chart can be found here:
 
 
I have unpinned this current thread, as well, and added this updated link to the OP, to help reduce future confusion.

Please keep it civil.

The accusation of transparency came after he posted in the legion forums and the thread was locked. 
 
Another person posed the same question and that post and thread was deleted.  

After that, a Garrison commander posed the question in closed council where it could not be easily moderated and they asked if it could be moved to open council.  Which was granted by the LMO.  Not all of the legion councilors thought it should be moved to open council.

Closed council exists to talk about sensitive topics that can legal repercussions.  This topic was none of those things and it was good to move it to open council.  Because policy should always be in the light of day.  We don't have to agree on policy, but we can agree that it should be discussed openly.

I predate the CRLs.  I’m starting my 18th year in the Legion in January.  
We made the best decisions with what we could see.  
When I see the picture of this outstanding costume, we should be asking people to prove how it’s NOT accurate.  
spoiler: they won’t be able to.  That makes it screen accurate.  The discussion should end right there since we aren’t going for “prop accuracy” like some of the amazing, but clinically insane (much love to you, Fetts!) Boba Fetts who track down original pieces and don’t use any reproduction pieces.  
 
Look at the ANH costumes.  Those F451 things, etc.  
The CRL can change.
We aren’t lowering our standards.  Nobody out there in the general public gives a crap about princess seams and most of them don’t couldn’t even tell you what they are.  Approximately 98% of all non legion people I’ve asked over the years done even realize Vader’s costume was different in every movie.  You think potential seams barely visible not shown on screen on the back of a costume is what’s gonna hurt the credibility and reputation of the legion? 
Not as much as this, quite frankly, “weird flex” attempt at elitist gate keeping.  
Are we doing this for us, or for them? 
Perfect is the enemy of good.  
 

Yes, it’s inconsistency like this that have so many of us so upset.
If there were clear and defined rules and procedures that would be one thing, and I’m sure we would all accept that.
(For those who argue that there MUST be 360° views, this is quite simply not the case. The very wording says that ideally there should be these views available, is does not say that they are a definitive requirement)
But this doesn’t appear to be the case here. We see some costumes get through and others not.
I’ve said it here before and I’ve said in the moan Legion boards, CRLs are continuously revised and updated over time. I’m literally part of the IOC CRL team doing that very thing now. We are talking about a fabric tunic which in all likelihood has nothing to see on that back than we’ve already seen. The very reason it hasn’t been seen is that there’s nothing to see. There is no hard armour, no backpack, no wings or fairylights there. It’s fabric. There might be an additional seam. And this is worst case. 
If the CRL was green lit right now with the known sources, any future references could be easily incorporated into the text or images, if required.
This happens literally all the time. We improve our CRLs when more information comes to light. 

Yes, it’s inconsistency like this that have so many of us so upset.
If there were clear and defined rules and procedures that would be one thing, and I’m sure we would all accept that.
(For those who argue that there MUST be 360° views, this is quite simply not the case. The very wording says that ideally there should be these views available, is does not say that they are a definitive requirement)
But this doesn’t appear to be the case here. We see some costumes get through and others not.
I’ve said it here before and I’ve said in the moan Legion boards, CRLs are continuously revised and updated over time. I’m literally part of the IOC CRL team doing that very thing now. We are talking about a fabric tunic which in all likelihood has nothing to see on that back than we’ve already seen. The very reason it hasn’t been seen is that there’s nothing to see. There is no hard armour, no backpack, no wings or fairylights there. It’s fabric. There might be an additional seam. And this is worst case. 
If the CRL was green lit right now with the known sources, any future references could be easily incorporated into the text or images, if required.
This happens literally all the time. We improve our CRLs when more information comes to light. 

Apologies for the delays in the final CRL website build, photo collection and preparation, but the full CRL was sent off to the LMO team for formal approval today.  If they require any changes to the proposed text, we will negotiate that, else as soon as they approve it, the CRL will go live.

Yes, it’s inconsistency like this that have so many of us so upset.
If there were clear and defined rules and procedures that would be one thing, and I’m sure we would all accept that.
(For those who argue that there MUST be 360° views, this is quite simply not the case. The very wording says that ideally there should be these views available, is does not say that they are a definitive requirement)
But this doesn’t appear to be the case here. We see some costumes get through and others not.
I’ve said it here before and I’ve said in the moan Legion boards, CRLs are continuously revised and updated over time. I’m literally part of the IOC CRL team doing that very thing now. We are talking about a fabric tunic which in all likelihood has nothing to see on that back than we’ve already seen. The very reason it hasn’t been seen is that there’s nothing to see. There is no hard armour, no backpack, no wings or fairylights there. It’s fabric. There might be an additional seam. And this is worst case. 
If the CRL was green lit right now with the known sources, any future references could be easily incorporated into the text or images, if required.
This happens literally all the time. We improve our CRLs when more information comes to light. 

Policy should not be justified behind closed doors.  It should be out in the open.  And I will do what I can to have these policies and decisions discussed put in the open.  Please bear with us. 

This is the reason I’m so offended by the lmo’s on this. They literally have no reason beyond “because we said so!” But saying “no this is fine” for others.

Yes, it’s inconsistency like this that have so many of us so upset.
If there were clear and defined rules and procedures that would be one thing, and I’m sure we would all accept that.
(For those who argue that there MUST be 360° views, this is quite simply not the case. The very wording says that ideally there should be these views available, is does not say that they are a definitive requirement)
But this doesn’t appear to be the case here. We see some costumes get through and others not.
I’ve said it here before and I’ve said in the moan Legion boards, CRLs are continuously revised and updated over time. I’m literally part of the IOC CRL team doing that very thing now. We are talking about a fabric tunic which in all likelihood has nothing to see on that back than we’ve already seen. The very reason it hasn’t been seen is that there’s nothing to see. There is no hard armour, no backpack, no wings or fairylights there. It’s fabric. There might be an additional seam. And this is worst case. 
If the CRL was green lit right now with the known sources, any future references could be easily incorporated into the text or images, if required.
This happens literally all the time. We improve our CRLs when more information comes to light. 

As a long time member I remember when the Omega RC joined the Legion, there was not a single visual reference, it was pretty much just like "Deltas but all black" and they got in. (at this moment we still don't have references of their backpacks)
There are many costumes (mostly FSE and Spec Ops) that have been approved over the years and this one has, IMO (GML for 10+ years) all that is needed. (by far)
 

I definitely agree this was a bad call.  The rules allow it.  But I believe the wrong choice was made, in this instance.  (possibly some others, too, but I can't speak to those right now)

I hope you know that "the 501st" DOES want you and your costume.  It's just a few who are in an unfortunate position to block approval who are against this, and only because of the lack of reference.  (How consistently that is applied is obviously another story). But I strongly suspect a majority in the 501st DEFINITELY want you to be approved.  Myself included, of course.