Thanks for the reminder, Jeff, I had forgotten the details about what was discussed last round, but now I remember that being the case.
FO boots certainly exist, so they could be *technically* be included, but the hybrid option, no, not so much.
It's a good reminder, however, about how CRLs work: We can't just grab screen shots and say "Ok, there it is, add it". Someone has to actually submit a costume with that feature, and supply photos for the CRL, before anything like that can be included.
All that said, here's my thoughts on these boots:
There are multiple principles at play. There’s principle of “this is how we intend for this character to look”. Add to that the principle of consistency across the 501st. WE ARE NOT THE RPF. We do not have to replicate mistakes just because they were on screen. We don’t make our L3 Stormtroopers put white gaffers tape on their armor, and we don’t allow Mr NoStripes, despite him clearly being on screen. And we don’t allow Gunners to wear loafers instead of jack boots, despite the one quick pickup scene where they did.
THIS is the principle that has been followed in the past. What was intended for the character, and how did the costume designers want them to look? Adding to that, the Visual Guides have had many mistakes that have been shown over time. They’re not gospel. They’re handy *extra* evidence when needed, just like the action figures.
These characters are *intended* to wear standard OT style boots. Production realities and budgets meant they sort of grabbed what was available for a few background characters when supplies ran low. That doesn’t mean they were intended to wear FO boots. et alone those weird hybrid things.
Option 2 is the principle of “no matter what, if we see it on screen, we allow it”. That's a valid option, if not the choice *I* would make, but fine. We’d better push to start allowing Stormtroopers with no tube stripes, for one, because who cares about consistency if we can say technically it’s on screen? (or in a book?)
Now, all that said, these are not decisions that are locked in stone. And if the situation changes, I expect us to update things to accommodate the change. If we end up seeing 3 dozen officers in Andor, wearing these boots, that’s definitely on screen and intended, budget or not. And we adjust the CRL to allow it. Once someone actually shows us a pair in hand that we can use for submission, that is.
Note that all of this is MY opinion, and where I would recommend we go with this. If Robert agrees, that's a plus. LOL. This post is not intended to state the formal IOC command policy decision, and end all debate, should others feel strongly otherwise, but this IS the direction that I will be pushing for, as far as that goes.
For the sake of speed and simplicity, my personal recommendation is to put off the hard armor options temporarily, and simply expand the current non-saga Staff to include the straight leg pants + chelsea boot options, and rename it. We can update the language to the wording used for the green Military Officer Non Saga CRL, as this is the most accurate, up-to-date wording used for these sorts of costumes... and the only difference is truly the color. These are extremely straight-forward (not uncomplicated on the back end, but still) changes that should be non-controversial, and don't really require negotiating any tricky wording for anything.
Once the Staff/Security CRL is revamped and online, the Social Officer and Science Officer CRLs will be full redundant, and be removed from the active approval list. (And as always, all currently approved will be grandfathered and nothing changes for them, just like when the original "Staff Officer (Black)" CRL was pulled.)
Then things will be MUCH cleaner and ready to rock for all.
THEN we can take on things like adding in the hard armor options, since that will require more research, careful drafting, and likely some debate. I just don't want to hold up the overall cleanup, which could happen very quickly, with delays due to hard armor wrangling. This is probably the most important CRL in the IOC right now (alongside the new olive Military Officer CRL), so the sooner we can get this done the better, in my view.
The full CRL has been formally submitted to the LMO team for final approval.
This is the last step. If approved, the CRL will go live shortly afterwards. Else there may be some negotiating on minor points of wording (I would hope), then we would proceed.
We're getting very close. I have photos. Some new, of course, and many are re-used from pre-existing CRLs which share the same components.
Description: Imperial Military Officer (Non-Saga)
Prefix: ID
Detachment: Imperial Officer Corps
Context: Rogue One, Solo, The Mandalorian and Expanded Universe.
Formed from the officer ranks of Republic Military at the end of the Clone Wars, the Imperial Military Officers provide leadership to the armed forces. A combined service made of naval and army officers, serving individual sectors and direct control from Coruscant. Officers provide front line, managerial and strategic leadership for the forces of the Galactic Empire.
NOTE: Imperial Military Officer Versions: Please note that there are two acceptable versions of this costume. If one variant has already been approved, another variant will still need to be approved by the GML before use.
Required Costume Components
The following costume components are present and appear as described below.
Hair and appearance
Applicants may style hair, facial hair, eye color or use makeup to emulate any character that wears this costume, provided the example is from a licensed LFL source.
When not emulating character appearance, applicants are encouraged but not required to adhere to conservative hair stylings and grooming of a military nature.
Colored contact lenses
Colored contact lenses must be worn if required to accurately portray an alien character's inhuman eye coloring.
Contacts giving the appearance of any natural human eye color may be worn to emulate a specific officer's configuration, if desired.
All persons utilizing contact lenses are encouraged to first see their optometrist for a fitting.
Hat, Olive
Hat is OPTIONAL only if a specific referenced licensed character’s uniform configuration is copied in full.
Fabric is a medium weight suiting material exactly matching the tunic and pants.
Cavalry Twill or a Gabardine style weave is most accurate.
Color matches the tunic and pants.
Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6 mm) tall.
Front and rear "flaps" overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6 mm) high.
Front bill extends 3" down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
Imperial Code Disk positioned in the center of the front vertical "flap."
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Code disk has NO notch in it on the outermost disk.
Tunic
Fabric is a medium weight suiting material matching the pants (and hat, if present).
Cavalry Twill or a Gabardine style weave is most accurate.
Tunic is double-breasted with a left over right closure on the tapered yoke.
Yoke comes up across the shoulder to the top shoulder seam.
The standing collar has square corners and is between 1.25" (31.8 mm) to 2" tall, and closes snugly.
The wearer's neck must not be visible between the closed collar.
A modesty panel behind the collar closure is recommended to help with this, but is not required.
Collar edges are closed with two eye hooks.
There are code cylinder pockets on both outside panels of the jacket, from about half way between the top and bottom on the arm hole.
Sleeves are long, and without decoration, cuffs or buttons.
Sleeves contain 2 seams.
One along the bottom and one along the back.
Tunic is constructed with no top-stitching (stitches visible on the exterior surface of fabric)
Fasteners on the uniform should not be visible.
Uniform is to be pressed and free of a wrinkled appearance.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
There is a dart in the top center of the tunic, this dart is between 2 inches (50.8mm) and 3 inches (76.2mm in length.
There is a seam running the entire circumference of the tunic, dividing it along a line hidden by the uniform belt.
The front placket of the tunic may omit this seam only if the uniform belt is worn in a manner which conceals the omission.
The back of the tunic has princess seams that run vertically and turn outward to intersect the arm-hole seam at the vertical center.
OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):
Tunic is secured on the right side by snaps or buttons, not velcro.
A lining is sewn in.
Rank Bar
Rank consists of colored plastic tiles mounted on a single or double metal or metal looking bar(s).
Worn on the left side of the tunic over the heart, aligned with the code cylinder pocket.
Each bar is approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to 1.25" (31.75 mm) in height.
Length is determined by chosen rank.
Rank tile dimensions and spacing are appropriate and proportional to the sizing of the bar to allow for equidistant and even spacing from each other and the border of the bar:
Rank tile dimensions are approximately 15 mm wide, 21 mm tall and 3.2 mm deep. - This is the R1/Solo size.
OR Rank tile dimensions are approximately ½" (12.7 mm) width x ¾" (19 mm) height x 1⁄8" (3.2 mm) deep. - This is the OT/Mandalorian size.
Rank tile sizes must all be of one or the other - Not to be intermixed.
Please note that final dimensions of the bar may be proportional to the wearer.
Rank bar corners are hard 90 degree angle or slightly rounded
Rank tiles are translucent, rectangular, positioned side by side in a vertical orientation, and evenly spaced.
Color, quantity, and combinations of the tiles/bars are determined by rank, and are appropriate to uniform type/color as supported by licensed reference.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Rank consists of colored plastic push buttons (with white to off white insert) mounted on a metal bar.
OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):
Rank chosen must be referenced from licensed reference.
Code Cylinders
Between 1 to 4 per costume may be worn.
Dosimeter style: True Dosimeter style with correct silver clip (no brass) and Blue top.
If only one is worn, it is on the left side.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Only real or replica dosimeters are used.
Belt
The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material.
Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 2.5” (63.5 mm) is acceptable.
There are no loops on the belt.
A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) from the buckle.
The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer.
It is preferred to wear the snap to the left of the wearer, unless emulating a specific licensed character.
The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material.
The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8“ (66.7 mm) high and 4 ⅛" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners.
Buckle is adorned with an un-notched Imperial Code Disk at the center.
Please refer to the Imperial Buckle reference page for information on accurate and inaccurate style buckles.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Belt is made of leather.
Belt has a groove at the top and bottom edge along the length of the belt.
Buckle has a slight horizontal curve.
Version One: Jodhpur Trousers, Olive
Fabric is a medium weight suiting material exactly matching the tunic.
Cavalry Twill or a Gabardine style weave is most accurate.
Version One trousers are flared riding breeches, with semi-stiff flares to the hip/thigh area.
Breeches are worn with boots.
Breeches are neatly pressed or ironed without creases.
Pockets are acceptable, although are not visible with the tunic on.
Version Two: Pants, Olive
Fabric is a medium weight suiting material exactly matching the tunic.
Cavalry Twill or a Gabardine style weave is most accurate.
Version Two pants are straight leg in style, and rest on the top of the shoes without bunching or giving any sloppy appearance.
Pants are neatly pressed or ironed with creases.
Pockets are acceptable, although are not visible with the tunic on.
Version One: Officer Boots
Knee-high, black, riding style, lace-less, smooth non-textured, leather or leather-like material.
There are no buckles, snap tabs or decoration.
Boots have conservative heels.
A single stretch panel or zipper may be present, they are to be hidden on the inner part of the boot shaft.
Not visible from the front, side or back.
The top of the boots may be flat or Spanish Style, but not Cowboy or Super Hero (pointed at the front) style.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Boots do not have a zipper.
OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):
Boots are made of leather.
Not vinyl or PVC.
Exact replicas of English riding (dress) boots or Equestrian boots.
Version Two: Officer Shoes
Black, smooth non-textured, and made of leather or leather-like material.
The shoes are void of all decoration.
If shoes have laces they are hidden above the hem of the pants.
Shoes have a small conservative heel.
Chelsea style boots are acceptable, subject to the same requirements as shoes.
If worn, may only be paired with straight-leg trousers.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Shoes are well shined.
Optional Accessories
Items below are optional costume accessories. These items are not required for approval, but if present appear as described below. If adding in an accessory after initial approval, the item still needs to be submitted to local GML for approval before use.
Gloves
Black, wrist length gloves constructed of a smooth, non-textured leather or leather-like material.
Enclosed fingers.
No buckles, straps, etc.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Gloves have a plain back and no visible adornments.
Gloves made of leather.
Gloves end just past the wrist.
Trenchcoat
Made of a medium-weight waterproof fabric that is olive-green in color, closely matching the uniform color
Fabric has a matte finish.
Two flares at the breast overlap and close in the front, left breast over right. The collar continues around the neck and is approximately 3.5 inches wide.
The inner facing of the upper collar may be of darker fabric but is not required.
A seam runs down the arm on the outside, it begins at the costumers collar.
Two inch long cuffed sleeves with a single button towards the end of the cuff. The cuff "strap" ends in a chevron shape.
On the back, the storm shield has a pinch pleat at the top center of the shoulders.
The coat ends mid-calf and is straight cut along the bottom edge.
The coat below the belt has a split seam in the back.
Two pocket flaps may appear at the costumer's hip, but are not required; if present, there should be no visible pocket stitching.
The coat is worn either belted with the standard leather officer's belt, or loose.
Belt boxes (Non-Saga style)
Dimensions are approximately 2" (50.8mm) wide by 3" (76.2 mm) tall by 1" x (25.4mm) thick
Two boxes to be worn vertically, one each on either side of the belt buckle
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Belt boxes are made of metal.
Dress Shirt
A white dress shirt is worn under the tunic.
The collar and sleeve cuffs are slightly visible, protruding from under the olive tunic.
Holster
Made of black leather or leather-like material.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Holster is affixed via a single loop over the belt.
Holster is made of leather.
SE-14R Light Repeating Blaster
The barrel detailing is evident with the cocking lever and slider in place.
The ejection port is also evident.
The scope mount looks similar to the magazine but smaller in size.
The scope does not protrude past the blaster body.
The "Appearance" section allowing makeup to alter the skin may benefit from some language to specifically prohibit blackface. Any good suggestions?
There's one thorny issue which has yet to be discussed. The issue is: Color.
Color is a bear. Especially in a crazy color-shifting garment like this, which looks dramatically different depending on lighting.
That said: The term "Feldgrau" is not contained anywhere in this CRL, nor the Line Officer CRL it evolved from. As we all know, Feldgrau is technically the actual color used. I will not advocate it being the MAIN color referenced, because it'll confuse too many people, but it really should be referenced in there somewhere. Currently, there is NO actual reference to color, whatsoever... other than that it all has to match. Fuchsia is good, then? LOL
I've read over a BUNCH of CRLs to see how color has been handled in other areas. Most common approach seems to put in the line regarding the tunic's fabric.
"The olive drab jumpsuit..." (from Daala)
"Fabric is a medium weight, field grey colored suiting material." (from Death Star NCO)
"Tunic is constructed of a medium to heavy white twill weave fabric." (from Krennic)
"Fabric is a medium weight, dark charcoal grey drill or suiting material." (from FO Hask/Lieutenant/Colonel)
"Fabric is a medium weight, dark teal suiting material exactly matching the pants." (from First Order Colonel / Major)
"Fabric is an olive colored medium weight suiting material exactly matching the pants." (from R1 Science Officer)
"Olive/grey colored fabric is a medium weight suiting material exactly matching the pants." (from Republic/Feet Officer)
So we've used "Olive/Grey" and "Field grey" in other costumes.
Wikipedia describes Feldgrau as "greenish-gray": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feldgrau
Possible changes to my proposed text:
Considering "field grey" has been used in other CRLs, I think this should be ok. We could leave out the addition of the second line, but I feel like putting the explanation and including "olive" ties it into our original costume better... and make it less likely that an over-zealous GML will take this as an opportunity to ban CosplaySky's uniforms as being out of spec, color-wise. (Which is... another discussion for another time)
To request a personal Advisor, simply reply in this thread using the following format with your information:
Jeff "Lantern2745" Greatens, requesting an advisor in the Green Bay, WI area for help with a Governor Pryce costume.
first name "screen name" last name, requesting an advisor in the city, state, country area for help with a which costume you've chosen
As soon as one of the IOC Advisors is able, they will reply and private message you for more details and to begin helping you.
If I can wear my Sullustan mask and my green suit at an event with no one wagging an angry finger at me and throwing ban hammers for wearing an "unapproved costume" then I am someone that wants a Prescreening Officer or whatever it will eventually may be called. I do like Jeff's suggestion of it being a tab with the Warrant Officer.
Some Garrisons and Command Staffs have weird long histories of ruling their members with iron fists about what can and can't be worn at events, anything that helps members get to live their best IOC life is always a good thing.
IMO the IOC does a damn good this year in focussing on making CRLs for the new costumes. That's what IMO is the main reason for detachments: Creating CRLs out of shared reference material. The "rest" (e.g. merch) is a nice extra to cultivate the corporate feeling. Speaking of references, I agree with Rob: If you see something on screen, you should be able to clear it. There are CRLs out there für costumes that have only seconds of screentime (Bazine Natal, Zuckuss, Mechanical Crew,...) and people have tons of fun buildiung and wearing them (just look up "Rapid Reaction cleunup Crew" on Instagram). It's the core of the 501st in the first place: Building and wearing screen accurate costumes. Of course charity became also a big part of our club, but it's not the reason we exist and shouldn't intervene what CRLs we create.
I wonder if we could add a second version for the "green" uniform to the Warrant Officer CRL? That would cover the "prescreening" configuration in a logical place.
- Jeff
One Interesting justification I once read for the Warrant Officer is: If you ever forget your rank bar at home, or lose it partway through a troop, you can still troop in an approvable (/ approved) costume.
I wonder if we could add a second version for the "green" uniform to the Warrant Officer CRL? That would cover the "prescreening" configuration in a logical place.
- Jeff
I wonder if we could add a second version for the "green" uniform to the Warrant Officer CRL? That would cover the "prescreening" configuration in a logical place.
- Jeff
Chiming in as a Centurion. If our TKs were exact copies of the ones used on screen, we wouldn't make it 10 steps out of the changing space lol! There is a balance to be had between accuracy and compromise. Strapping and non visible parts typically are flexible on accuracy. But something like making officer ranks bars optional shouldn't be on the table in my opinion. I recommend making a warrant officer if you don't want a rank bar lol.
@lantern2745 unfortunately the face character part is NOT superfluous. There are garrisons currently denying members from doing face characters. They say "there is nothing in this for the CRL" and then they won't let them do it. This was a specific request from a number of members and we can confirm their garrisons deny them. These are members with approved Line officer costumes. They want to do costumes from the games and comics and this seems the best place for it.
The Silver clips we can change.
We want to make sure that the expansion joints are there for higher levels. Katy O'Brian had them on her boots. It should be permissible.
We will tighten the colors and order permissible for rank bars.
It was just a different patch on what was the Galen Erso uniform. This is similar to Doctor Pershing, but has many differences, boots, gloves, different buckle (radically different, not even a standard imperial one). This is a completely different uniform.
And whenever possible we should use the names that the productions use. Imperial Medical Technician it is.
I rolled a 30 sided die (one side for each poster in this thread, associating side #1 with the first reply, #2 with the second, etc). I rolled a 9, which correlates to you!
Congratulations! Drop me a PM with your shipping address and I'll have it off next time I'm dropping stuff at the post office
This thread will discuss changes to the Imperial Bridge Crew Comm Pad. Changes were made based on evidence from the Jolly Rodger Squadron Detachment for the Original Trilogy TIE pilot. These Comm pads have historically been identical for use with the Bridge Crew, TIE Pilots, Reserve Pilots and even Imperial Gunners.
This thread will be used for evidence for the change to be submitted with the text used for the CRL change for the two JRS costumes. The membership will be able to view this as the justification before any changes are made.
lantern2745 got a reaction from JayKim in Requesting an Advisor.
lantern2745 got a reaction from Mitthrawnuruodo in Imperial Military Officer (Non-Saga), green(3).thumb.jpg.6a0bac5284fb232b9ecf3461dcb42f2e.jpg)
lantern2745 got a reaction from Eagle in Imperial Military Officer (Non-Saga), green
lantern2745 got a reaction from kman in Imperial Military Officer (Non-Saga), green.thumb.jpg.ca53d555698aa26dfa82bbcdc5a12730.jpg)
lantern2745 got a reaction from whitmers in Moff Gideon CRL - The Mandalorian, Season One