Daetrin

I respectfully disagree. I think characters/officers that play a significant role in these stories deserve a CRL. That includes people like Tarkin. I've never heard this sentiment voiced in any other administration but this one. 
 
At the end of the day when you go to the GML, you will not be approved as Dedra, you will be ISB. No matter what is said or promoted here.
 
It's a good system, for background officers sure. But you won't be approved as that Officer, you'll just be line, staff, or ISB with that named character configuration.
 
This is one of the first on screen imperial officer female leads, and not giving her a CRL is a disservice to our female members here in the IOC and the legion as whole. You have the interest, let the CRL be made. 
 
Tom

You *could* also just get some synthetic boots for L1 and regular trooping while you wait for CrowProps.  They are like $70 or so, and are good enough and it's not like you worry about them if you have to troop in the rain etc.  That is what I did.

After reading through this thread, I think she deserves a face CRL like Tarkin.  That, and she has a ton of screen time compared to the generic Andor ISBs...

We are cleared by the LMOs to have anyone create this costume.  There are enough references to it.  Show your work and we will work with you to get a CRL created and we will submit the costume to them.

Yes I know that and that’s the point because my husband looks like Jayhold.

All of that will be added soon to my first post.

... I fall in love with the ceremonial cloak of this uniform. Great idea to do the CRL

Hi there,
 
Andor Episode 6 is just 2 days old but my husband fall in love with the Gala uniform of Jayhold Beehaz.
So I will create the CRL.
 
Many greetings from Germany, 
Jessica ID 68123

 
Required Costume Components
The following costume components are present and appear as described below.
 
Hair and Facial Features
·         Hair is light grey and runs to the neck, visible under the hat.
·         Beard is grey with white highlights.
·         No visible scars.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
·         Facial appearance and hair match very closely to that of Stanley Townsend.
 
 
Imperial Hat, fieldgrey with black visor
·         Fabric is a medium weight suiting material matching the pants and tunic.
·         Gabardine style weave is most accurate.
·         Fabric of the visor is leather or leather-like with matte shine.
·         A band with a silver military trim runs across the front of the hat and is approx 1-1,5 cm wide.
·         The band is hidden by the rear flap at the back of the head.
·         The color of the trim matches the Gala belt/sash trim
·         Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6 mm) tall.
·         Front and rear "flaps" overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6 mm) high.
·         Front bill is black leather or leather-like and extends 3" down, decorated with 5 concentric stitches/seams.
·         Imperial code disk is positioned in the center of the front vertical flap with no notch.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
·         ….
OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):
·         ….
 
 
Cape, black with light seams
·         Fabric is a medium weight (rainproof?) material with structure, probably heavy canvas/Loden or similar.
·         Light grey seams are visible.
·         A single seam is running around the whole cloak, ca. 4 cm from the edge. 
·         The back of the cloak reaches from the shoulders to the ankle of the boots.
·         The front of the cloak reaches from the shoulders to the wrists.
·         Cloak has a collar that is approximately 4-5 cm tall, no split in the middle.
·         Attached to the collar are two rectangular matte silver rank bars, a thin edge running around. 
·         Two double seams running across the shoulder wedge.
·         The front panel of the yoke doesn’t have seams and is around 1 - 1,5 cm wide in the middle.
·         The back panel of the yoke has a seam running around,  ca 4 cm from the edge, no other seams.
·         Cloak closes from left to right up across the shoulder to the top shoulder seam incl the collar.
·         Curved silver matte rank bars attached to the shoulders, a thin edge running around. No fixation visible.
·         The back of the cloak is divided in the middle by an inverted pleat, starting at the edge of the yoke. An additional  pleat is added left and right of the middle, the pleated section between 25-30 % wide in comparison to the yoke edge.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
·         Cape collar edge must lie flush to tunic collar edge
·         Collar is made from plain black material.
OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):
·         ...
 
 
Tunic, Fieldgrey with black highlights
·         Fabric is a medium weight suiting material exactly matching the pants and hat.
·         Gabardine style weave is most accurate.
·         Tunic is double-breasted with a left over right closure on at the right shoulder-seam.
·         Yoke closes up across the shoulder to the top shoulder seam.
·         A black flap is sewn onto each shoulder, 2 to 2,5 cm wide and ends at the vertical front seam.
·         The standing collar is black and has square corners and is approximately 3 to 5 cm tall and closes snugly.
·         The wearer's neck must not be visible between the closed collar edges.
·         Collar edges are closed together in front with two eye hooks.
·         There are code cylinder pockets on both outside panels of the jacket from about half way between the top and bottom on the arm hole.
·         The back of the tunic has 2 princess seams that run vertically and turn outward to intersect the arm-hole seam at the vertical center.
·         A belt holder (hook) is sewn onto the tunic in the area of  the princess seam in the back.
·         Sleeves are long, and with black trimming at each end which covers ca. 25% of the arm of the costume from wrist to top.
·         Sleeves containing 1 seam, one along the back which is also visible on the black part.
·         Hook and eye fasteners on the uniform are not visible.
·         Tunic ends right above the knee.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
·         There is a dart in the top center of the tunic; this dart is between 2 inches (50.8mm) and 3 inches (76.2mm in length.
OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):
·         Tunic is secured on the right side by snaps or buttons, not Velcro.
·         A lining is sewn in.
 
 
Rank Bar
·         Worn on the left side of the tunic over the heart.
·         Rank consists of colored plastic tiles mounted on a metal or metal looking bar
·         The bar is approximately 1" to 1.25" height.
·         Length is determined by chosen rank configuration.
·         Rank tile dimensions are approximately 1/2" (12.7 mm)width x 3/4" (19 mm) height and about 1/8" (3.2 mm) in depth.
·         Rank tiles are translucent.
·         There is only one choice of rank bar:
·         One row of four blue tiles and two red tiles
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
·         Rank consists of colored plastic push buttons mounted on a metal bar.
 
 
Code Cylinders
·         Two code cylinders are worn, one in each pocket on the tunic.
·         Code cylinders are of the following styles:
·         Dosimeter style: True Dosimeter with golden/brass clip and blue top.
 
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
·         Only real or replica dosimeters are used.
 
 
 
Gala belt
·         black with silver decoration.
·         worn around the waist with one sash over the right shoulder, secured by the black shoulder flap and behind the belt. 
·         The belt is constructed from a black basis, probably leather or leather-like and two silver military trimmings sewn on top.
·         Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable.
·         There are no loops on the belt.
·         The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material.
·         The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners.
·         Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center.
·         Please refer to the Imperial Buckle reference page for information on accurate and inaccurate style buckles.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
·         Buckle is flat or may have a very slight curve.
OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):
·         ....
 
 
Jodhpur Trousers, fieldgrey
·         Fabric is a medium weight suiting material exactly matching the tunic and hat.
·         Gabardine style weave is most accurate.
·         Flared riding breeches are canon.
·         Pockets are acceptable, although they are not visible with the tunic on.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
·         ....
OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):
·         ....
 
 
Officer Boots
·         Knee-high, black, riding style, lace-less, smooth non-textured, leather or leather-like material.
·         There are no buckles, snap tabs or decoration.
·         Boots have conservative heels.
·         A single stretch panel or zipper may be present, they are to be hidden on the inner part of the boot shaft.
·         Not visible from the front, side or back.
·         The top of the boots may be flat or Spanish Style, but not Cowboy or Super Hero (pointed at the front) style.
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
·         Boots do not have stretch panels or a zipper.
OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):
·         Boots are made of leather.
·         Not vinyl or PVC.
·         Exact replicas of English riding (dress) boots or Equestrian boots.
·         Boots are flat topped.
 
 
Optional Accessories
Items below are optional costume accessories. These items are not required for approval, but if present appear as described below. If adding in an accessory after initial approval, the item still needs to be submitted to local GML for approval before use.
Belt Boxes
·         Dimensions are approximately 2 1/2" (63.5 mm) by 3 1/2" (88.9 mm) by 1" (25.4 mm) thick..
·         Two boxes may be worn, one on either side of the belt.
·         Placement of the screw / rivet for the belt boxes should be on the shortest side (top and bottom for vertical belt boxes, left and right for horizontal)
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
·         Belt boxes include a lid on back of the box.
·         Belt boxes shall be worn only vertically.
OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):
·         Belt boxes are made of metal.
 
 
Gloves
·         Black, wrist length gloves constructed of a smooth, non-textured leather or leather-like material.
·         Enclosed fingers.
·         No buckles, straps, etc. 
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
·         Gloves have a plain back and no visible adornments.
·         Gloves made of leather.
·         Gloves end just past the wrist.
OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):
·         .....
 
 
THE coffee mug
·         matte black with 2 elongated indentations opposite each other 
·         contains arouncd xx ounces
·         a thin silver plate attached on one side
OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
·         ....

HTH.    I'm really glad for this thread - I hope this information and discussion gets out to more GMLs.  Kudos to @BarisAlrisul for bringing it up again, and you for all your insight, research, and detail.

For those that don't want to read all the posts on the Legion boards, here is the summary by the LMO.    My take on this is what he's trying to say is this:
 
Will front princess seams on ID costumes always approvable?  No in that...
Should they be allowed for guys? No.
Should they be always allowed for all females? No.
Should GMLs exercise some discretion on a case by case basis when a costume is well done, it does not distract from the overall look, and there is no better option?  Yes.
 
That is the guidance I'll go with as a GML at least.  "No", but with the possibility of an exception on a case by case basis for females who need it.
 
 

If my above comment wasn't clear, in short I agree 100% with your suggestion.

But it doesn't say that the others do not.  Thus the loophole.

Correct. CRL's only cover what you can see, and that has ever been the case.
Zippers would be OK only so long as you couldn't see that it was a zipper from the outside as noted would be OK *if* you couldn't see evidence of the zipper.  Sometimes because of thickness you can.
 
It's like pockets on ID pants - you can put them in there even if the costumes weren't made that way because they pocket holes are covered by the tunic.  Some people actually cut their officer pants off just below the knee and use long stirrups so there isn't much material in the boot.  What we can't see, we don't worry about.
 

I didn't say all the CRLs were perfect, did I?  Not everyone who writes them does a good job, or sometimes they have different points of view.  I should have said then:
 
"The CRLs *should* only cover what you can see, however since they are written by people and people aren't perfect, or sometimes want to go beyond that charter, there are inconsistencies.  Even when an experienced team with best intentions writes a CRL, sometimes errors are made.  In addition, considering that CRLs need DL/LMO approval, they reflect the desires of those in those roles at the time, and as those roles can change from year to year, what they want to emphasize can also change from year to year."
 
Does that help?  Personally there are a lot of things I'd like to see cleaned up on the IOC CRLs, but I'm neither the DL nor LMO, so can only state my opinion in light of what the CRLs are meant to be (having been writing them since their inception), and the evidence we see on screen/canon sources.

If that is the case, then it should be on the Tarkin CRL only, as if it's not visible, why do we require it on other costumes?  Answer = we shouldn't.  I'd love to see this removed as well.

I would prefer L2 myself, but am 100% that we should at least require it for L3 to get the ball rolling.
 
Mark - what do you think?
 

For the gloves, there is no visual support to allow 3 stiches on the back and it's causing grief on the open boards, as some people don't think "decorative stitching" includes those 3 lines.
 
*Mark* - any objection to me simply updating it to say "no stitching", or I presume you want to run this through Eric first?  The sooner that is put to bed, the better.

As a reminder, Facebook is not available worldwide to all Legion members, so can't fully be counted.

I'd like to hear what the DL thinks...

Colin = correct AFAIK.  For that reason we should probably make it more optional.  I guess if someone had time and was anal, we could catalog shot by shot every time we see it and then go from there.  

I'll try to be more fulsome in my reply.
I hope you all now have a greater appreciation of how hard it can be to get CRLs completed now that you can see it from the inside.  It is always worth remembering that the Legion is composed of thousands of people around the world, some who troop a bit and are casual members who just want to troop/socialize, and some who are hyper sensitive and will spend any amount of time and money to make the “perfect” costume.  To some anything more than L1 is a waste of time, and to others anything less than L3 is selling ourselves short.
 
Remember that L1 is supposed to be items that are easy to acquire and relatively modest in cost.   As you are finding out, what is “easy” and “cheap” to some is “hard” and “expensive” to others. 
 
So when I revise CRLs I always keep the above thoughts in mind.  For the CRL at hand, a few years ago asking people to get replica code cylinders was clearly L3, as they were uncommon, maybe one person made them, and expensive.  So they go to L3.  As demand for these items increases, more and more people make them so they become cheaper/easier.  L3 becomes L2, and eventually L1.
 
I will fully agree that good replica code cylinders are so available and cost effective that asking for replica ones can move from L2/L3 to L1.
 
It’s kinda like latex hand guards on TKs.  They used to be very hard, hard to get, and so started as L3.  Now they are L2.  Some day people will stop selling plastic hand guards and they will be L1.  Not today, but I can see it in a few years.
 
For rank badges, personally I’m OK with moving to the more accurate type for L1, however I do know a lot of people who make them on their own, or who have started putting officers together to whom moving to the correct ones is a burden.  And this is just in my garrison.  For that reason I can see having the good ones at L2 just a little while longer, maybe a year or so until people get used to it.
 
I’m not sure the CRLs will ever stop evolving in my trooping career.  I think over time the gap between L1-L3 will continue to decrease to where there’s not much difference.  I can see that on numerous costumes.  As you mentioned, what was once state of the art is now L1, but then back in 2005 no one could even conceive of what we have as L3 now.  It would be like having unobtainium.
 
Does that help?  Also, I don’t see us arguing at all, but discussing. 
 
I also hope you understand why these days we don’t really have a public discussion or vote on CRLs like we used to, we’d never get anything done.
 
Do you know why the big re-write that BJ & I did went so fast?  Because the only people working on them were him and I.  It’s much easier to move fast when there are only 2 people involved. J   Contrast that with say the Krennic CRL where it just is getting bogged down in everyone having an opinion.
 
Don’t get me wrong – I love full detachment discussions, but at some point you need to circle the drain with a few folks and make the hard calls.  Rest assured, no matter what you do, someone will be unhappy.
 
Lastly, I will 100% agree that whomever updated the dosimeter CRL entry since last I touched it really did a botched job. It's not clear at all now.

FWIW, it's hard for me to let it go too.  As I the one after all that got ride of IC's being allowed to use dosimeters as code cylinders, and many other changes (you should have seen the befores)
 
Any idea how long it took me to get rid of the FX helmet?  Got time for more coffee
 
But, maybe it's having been at this so long, I can see the long term, and realize that even if it takes 2 years to get there, each year is a step, and to move things a bit sometimes is better.  Others, it's best to remove the band-aids.
 
For instance code cylinders - I'm all for moving to replica to L1 now.  Yes, it may seem illogical in parts, but I base it off of what I see in the garrisons I have visibility in to, where people are, and where the prop makers are in their dealings.
 
Some changes are best doing fast, some in 2-steps.
 
Does that help?
 
Oh, and so it's out there: this is just my opinion.  In the end the final call is the LMO/DL, so I realize I'm speaking purely in an adviserly perspective based on my experience in multiple roles in the Legion, and not someone who can dictate in this regard anymore.
 

Clayton - you are 100% correct.  Those kinds of things are details that BJ & I agonized too, e.g. is a 2 second see it & you miss it worth allowing in the CRL?  In the prisoner block scene if you look really closely in blow-up Blu-Ray freeze frame you can tell that the last guy shot as Han & Luke go to rescue the princess has an E-11, but does that mean that we should allow an unranked ANH officer to carry an E-11?   So in that case, we decided "no".   OTOH, we seen behind the scenes shots of ANH officers chasing after some pilots with a DH-17, and BJ decided to allow that as well as the MerrSonn Power5.  I wasn't in agreement, but he was the DL, so...
 
Some things just take a few iterations, and sometimes people are resistant as they hate losing a costume designation.
 
Still, I think watching the movies it is very clear to me that the jumpsuit IN is really just an black IC with a different helmet, and thus does not deserve its own CRL.

Well, you never see a TI with a blaster, but their CRL model has one ;-)
Aside form a trading card, waist up, there are zero references to Reserve Pilots, yet somehow JRS got a CRL created for it (clue, it's the exact same thing as an ROTJ IC).
 
It wouldn't be the first time a visual guide was used to justify a CRL, fwiw...or even pre-production stills.  For instance in ROTJ you can't see any rivets on the shoulder straps on the TK's, but on the pre-production stills you can.  So, people argue they should be on the CRL, even if you can't see them in the movie (as they are tiny).

In theory, theory and practice are the same.  In practice, they are not.  You are presuming that the entire Legion has perfect information and there are no used belt boxes floating around in the garrisons. There are 130 GMLs, and you presume that all are working perfectly and everyone can go off and buy new stuff instantly.
 
I'd still suggest putting it at L2+ and then in 2018 getting rid of the old ones at L1. Some people may have already bought the larger ones not knowing and their costumes are in progress, and now will get screwed mid-way through.  This is the fallout of making changes too rapidly.
 
As DL I can see your point. As a GML I'd like to let my garrison mates & pending applicants have some time to get used to the new standard.